After having been the plaintiff for so long in its suits against several Hollywood studios, Redbox now gets to wear the “defendant” hat. The kiosk operator is the subject of a class-action lawsuit claiming that Redbox has illegally collected $100 million in fees from customers who kept films for longer than a day.
“While it boasts ‘easy a night DVD rentals’ ‘with no late fees…ever,’ that is not the truth,” the filing reads.
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“Instead, Redbox charges its customers who return a movie even one minute late a late fee in the form of an illegal penalty.”
According to the filing, “The Coinstar unit has violated its claim that it doesn’t charge late fees by charging an additional $1 for DVDs that are returned any time after the 9 p.m. deadline after the initial 24-hour period has expired.” The claimants are also asserting that Redbox’s $25 charge for unreturned DVDs is illegal, as the fee is in excess of the typical cost of a new disc.
Video Business says that the suit was instigated by Illinois resident Laurie Piechur, who was charged $25 apiece for 27 Dresses and Fool’s Gold when she failed to return the rented discs to a Redbox machine.
Leaving discussions about Ms. Piechur’s taste in film to another day, what do you make of this lawsuit, Insiders?
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Are the claims being made against Redbox reasonable and justifiable, and will the suit go anywhere?
[via Video Business]
Personally, I think this is a ridiculous lawsuit, just wasting money on both ends.
Basically, the plaintiff was too lazy to return a few movies and had to pay a few dollars based on the clearly posted policies of Redbox, so now they sue Redbox while alleging $100 million dollars in “illegal fees”?
Seriously, they are called “use fees”, not late fees. If you “use” the movie after 9 pm, then you have to pay for it. Sounds pretty simple to me.
I hope this case gets thrown out quick, and the plaintiff gets stuck with a hefty amount of attorney’s fees. People like this make me sick, and so do the attorney’s who support and prey on them.
yep, this is just plain dumb. It’s like that lady who sues McDonalds because it was making her fat, do I need say more?
Redbox makes their fee structure very clear. I know exactly how it works and I admit to be someone who doesn’t always read the fine print. This lawsuit is rediculous.
Um … hate to point out the obvious but, 24 hrs plus 1 minute equals a 2nd day. Second day … second $1 fee. Not too hard to figure out (if you don’t want to go back within 24 hrs, go pay the crazy fees at one of the 1 week rental places). As for the $25 fee, if it’s a new release, that’s about what it costs to replace the disc. If you don’t want to pay the extra fees, get off your fanny and take ’em back. :D Ridiculous lawsuit. Just another case of someone looking for a free payday. Here’s hoping the judge that draws the case says bye-bye really fast.
Agree. That’s the way it is at hospitals, car rentals, etc. One minute over, and you’re charged for a second day whether you use the hospital room for a whole second day;whether you use the rental car for the whole second day, etc.
I don’t recall there being any advertising at hospitals or car rental places that advertise No Late Fees? I guess I will have to look around for signs more often at those places.
At hospitals, your checkout date/day is accessed by the doctor. If the doctor accesses that the patient admitted on Monday is well enough to go home on Wed, then the patient’s checkout date/day becomes Wed. All hospitals I know have a check out time for admitted patients–say 11am–so that the hospital can reserve that room for the next incoming admitted patient for 11am. At 11am, if the outgoing patient lingers a couple hours because they don’t have a ride home yet, etc., they are charged for an additiional day for the room because they didn’t leave/evacuate the room by the hospital’s assigned check out time–11am. If you sign for a weekend car rental and don’t bring back the car till Tuesday when the rental agency opens, you are charged for Tuesday.
If one is not competent enough to understand the Redbox rental agreement, stay home and watch the television. ;)
Wow, this makes Ms. Piechur look really incompetent. Redbox is in no way misleading, and I’ve never met anyone who was confused by their policies.
Yeah, this is silly. 9pm is clearly stated, as is the price of not returning the movie. If you return at 10pm the next day, sorry, that’s another day, another dollar.
I think the $25 charge is excellent because it gives me comfort that if I do not return it on time, I will not be charged $1/day indefinitely. What does Blockbuster charge for lost movies? I know it used to be outrageous.
Blockbuster charges what they would sell the movie for and it’s printed on your receipt when you rent the movie. It says, if you keep it for “X” many days (I can’t remember their policy), you will be charged “$$.$$” For a few movies I enjoyed, I simply kept them and paid the fee. Which was around $12 or so and I found to be a good deal. They used to deduct the price of the rental from the purchase price, so if you rented a movie for $4 and the cost to buy was $15 you only had to pay $11–kind of like rent-to-own. They don’t do that anymore, unfortunately.
Are late fees illegal? I wasn’t aware of that!
This woman doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Blockbuster got sued for something similar to this in I believe New Jersey and they lost the suit.
I must admit, I had my doubts until I just went to the Redbox website. Right directly in the top middle of the screen it says:
Easy $1 DVD Rentals. No Late Fees.
Rent and Return at over 15,000 Locations
You can call it whatever you want, extended day, extra use, etc, but what it boils down to is you just paid a late fee.
Redbox made a very big mistake in advertising No Late Fees and it could very well cost them in the end. Imagine having to return all those late charges that they have collected? That would be a serious financial hit to the company.
Disagree. It can’t be considered a ‘late fee’ unless the consumer and Redbox made a pre-agreement as to when the dvd was to be returned at the time of rental: one day, two days, five days, etc. When you pay like $5 for 5-day rental at Blockbuster, then you only start getting charged late fees AFTER 5 days BECAUSE you had the written agreement with BB to return in 5 days at the time of renting. Redbox and consumers make no such agreement EXCEPT if you don’t return it in 25 days you own it, and charged as such.
Go ahead, check out what I just copied and pasted from their own website.
It doesn’t says $1 a day, it says “$1 Movie Rentals, No Late Fees”
Hardly the customers fault that Redbox made a mistake in their advertising.
Just because you know what they want to try and get across, doesn’t mean it is not illegal. Seems like false advertising to me.
When I read the info at my kiosk, it says $1 per movie per day.” what do you think that means COMMON SENSE people! anyone will try to sue someone these days….
show me where it says the one dollar for the next day is a late fee?
its not a late fee, its another day rental.
Instead, Redbox charges its customers who return a movie even one minute late a late fee in the form of an illegal penalty.”
That’s not actually true, I was told by Customer Service that Redbox gives a grace period of at least 5 minutes after 9pm and I’ve tested it myself on a couple of occasions (not on purpose mind you).
All in all this is utterly ridiculous and frivolous and should end rather quickly.
Her lawsuit is based on a law in Illinois called the Illinois Rental Purchase Act. Based on that act, Redbox is in violation. This will be left up to the court to determine whether dvd rentals from Redbox fall under this law (since all rentals from Redbox are bound under Illinois law). If they do, Redbox will have to settle this and change their terms and conditions. If it does not fall under this law, she has nothing to stand on.
Jeez it says it right in the lawsuit…
“While it boasts ‘easy $1 a night DVD rentals’ ‘with no late fees…ever,’ that is not the truth,”
$1 A NIGHT… keep it 2 nights.. that’s 2 dollars, we’re not talking quantum f-ing physics here.
i know. how retarded can people be?
Poor Laurie Piechur!
I for one will be willing to pledge $1. to pay for her $50. in fees. Perhaps others might be willing to do the same.
I bet if InsiderRedBox.com were to host a fund raising, the fees could easily be raised along with enough money for a wristwatch and calendar as well, so Laurie could rent in the future without incurring any additional expenses.
Rather than contribute $1 to her stupidity it would be better to spend the $1 on a couple centerfire cartridges to remove this imbecile from society.
It’s a travesty that this wasn’t immediately dismissed.
While I agree it is frivolous the problem is that Redbox advertises the No Late Fees. There is a legal implication that you will not be charge any additional fees.
If they had not said No Late Fees then they would be alright.
Sadly, this lawsuit will be successful just like every other No Late Fee lawsuit.
Luckily for Redbox, they will likely be able to get away with giving out rental credits in lieu of a cash settlement. It will cost them in legal fees though.
Agreed.
This is really a case about deceptive advertising.
where is the deceptive advertising??? where does it say the one dollar is a late fee
In legal slang, Redbox is using what is known as “double-speak”.
The court can *not* determine the motive of the renter!!
There is no provision to afford the renter a chance to be *waved* a late fee for any reason. There is no contract stipulating any of the conditions of the rental agreement until *after* the transaction–again deceptive; and the agreement is *only* available via e-mail or phone, not at the kiosk!
The court will ask, “Is there a late fee or not”? There *is* a late fee, and therefore the deception. Rebox **can’t** say, “no late fee” …period!
What if all the kiosks are not working? I’ve had this experience! Redbox, to its credit, did issue a one-time use promo code when I explained about this condition via e-mail [I visited 3 locations no less!]. Again this contract provision is not stipulated!
As another example, what about a damaged disk? Who is responsible? Was it originally defective? Or damaged after the physical transfer from merchant to consumer? Again, Redbox does, to its credit, offer a one-time use promo code for a free [one day only rental] **if requested**, for unplayable disks, *regardless* of who is at fault. Again this contract provision is not stipulated!
$25 for a replacement isn’t unreasonable, which is one of many reasons why I rent from Redbox.
Even if Redbox doesn’t get any sort of volume pricing discounts for their movies and a replacement has to be purchased from at retail price, someone – meaning a real person, who is probably paid by somebody – still has to go and physically get a new copy of the movie and place it in the machine. Using Wal-Mart’s prices on most new releases, which is around $20 in most places, the extra $5 hardly seems to cover the time and effort spent recovering the un-returned movie so that Redbox can maintain a reasonable inventory in all kiosk’s.
The $1 a night is clearly stated on the machines. If you get it back after the stated time, you get charged. Simple. It might be frustrating to get charged an extra $1 if you get to the kiosk to return a movie at a reasonable time and find long line of undecided browsers in front of you, but that’s not Redbox’s fault. Ask the people in front of you if you can quickly return the movie or take the movie back home and watch it again!
I would first like to say that I am a small video store owner. That being said, I have 18 yrs exp dealing with customers in this industry and their view of late fee’s.
Is she an idiot, yes. Is redbox in violation yes. You cannot bostfully advertise “No Late Fees” and then turn around and charge them. Call them what you want but a pig is a pig no matter how much perfume you put on it. It’s plain deceptive and misleading advertising. Should she win, No. Should they be forced to stop deceptive practices, YES!
where does it say that the one dollar is a late fee??? from what i see is that if you take it back late then you can keep if for another 24 hours, for just another dollar.
it is not in anyway deceptive as it is spelled out VERY clearly in the rental agreement in the kiosk, the fews are laid out clearly just like with the rental car story if you keep it past the stated return time you are charged another day, that is not a “late fee” it is the cost you incurred on yourself and was explained before renting that if you chose to keep an extra day you would be charged for it as per the rental agreement.
I got burned by this once… The store closed at 930 and the redbox late window was 9pm… i returned it at about 910pm.. and was ding’d for another day… left a bad taste with me after that…
The Redbox said 9pm return. You returned it at 9:10 and had to pay for another day, WHICH you had already started. Sorry but Redbox was right. You’re like all those IMPORTANT people who are 10 min. late for a meeting/event and UPSET that it started on time. Grow up.
How do I join this lawsuit?
yeah mee too I want to be an ass and sue every store that doesnt tell me that there is no late fee. Because I know that movies I have taken back I have taken back late and was charged an extra dollar, but since it was after 9 like any person with an IQ over 2 I realize I will be charged one dollar more
I guess this woman believed she could rent a movie for $1 and just keep it forever with no penalty. I hope common sense prevails instead of total idiocy.
Exactly. Redbox clearly states it’s terms. There is NO deceptive advertising. $1.00 a day. If you notice it is past nine, you are charged for another day, and you may as well take it back the next morning. I have been 15 to 20 minutes late a few times and thought “damn, another dollar.” But I knew it was my fault, not theirs.
It says, “no late fees,” not “no more charges of any kind ever.” A late fee would be: you keep the movie until 9:30, get charged the additional dollar for an extra day, PLUS a dollar for a penalty. Totalling $3.00. THAT would be a late fee. You can’t just rent a movie for a dollar and keep it forever.
“It says, “no late fees,” not “no more charges of any kind ever.” A late fee would be: you keep the movie until 9:30, get charged the additional dollar for an extra day, PLUS a dollar for a penalty. Totalling $3.00. THAT would be a late fee. You can’t just rent a movie for a dollar and keep it forever.”
That is exactly my thinking, you just wrote it better than I could…haha:)
Who charges a penalty fee? it’s usually a rerent fee. Which is a late fee.
“It says, “no late fees,” not “no more charges of any kind ever.” A late fee would be: you keep the movie until 9:30, get charged the additional dollar for an extra day, PLUS a dollar for a penalty. Totalling $3.00. THAT would be a late fee.”
Umm, no, lol. The extra $1 that they charge for you bringing it back “late” after the return time of 9pm is the late fee. Sure, you want to call it an extra rental day, but the truth of the matter is that it is a late fee. Every video store for the most part charges them, especially now since Blockbuster has done away with the no late fee program.
Your argument says that Blockbuster could have ran the No Late Fee promo and charged extra day rental fees instead. You can’t have it both ways. You either charge extra days and not advertise No Late Fees, or you advertise No Late Fees and don’t actually have any.
Clearly, Redbox has late fees and yet they are advertising that they do not have them. Therein is their problem and one that could quite possibly cost them millions of dollars in refunded late fees that they collected in error.
Hmmm…..Okay, let’s say she rented/returning the dvd from a grocery store indoor Redbox kiosk. The grocery store closes nightly at exactly 9pm. She gets to the grocery store at 9:02 pm to return her dvd. She tries but the grocer will not let her in as they have locked their doors for the night. Now she can’t return the dvd until the next day when the grocery store opens at 8am. She returns it at 8am next day, and therefore gets charged another $1 by Redbox for another day rental. Should she sue the grocery store or Redbox because she was then charged the $1 by Redbox for an extra day rental?
or she can go to a different location all together
assuming like me there are no other kiosk within a resaonable drive (next nearest after our walmart is 2 countys and 40 miles away) it is her fault for not making it to this store with clearly posted hours that having rented from this location she would know that and would work her schedule to allow proper time to return the movie and if not just like everyone else suck it up and pay for the extra day.
a late fee is a penalty fee in my opinion. If I am late paying my bills, I get a late (penalty) fee that is much more, why is this any different?
O.K., apparently the whole concept is confusing. I can see what you’re saying about my comment. But yours makes no more sense.
“…or you advertise No Late Fees and don’t actually have any.”
If you rent a movie from Blockbuster and keep it for 15 days, you get charged the entire price of the movie. Very similar to redbox, except in even less time. If you take it back in under 30 days, the money is refunded to your card, but if you don’t, it’s not. If she had rented the movies from Blockbuster she would still be in the same boat.
They also advertise no late fees, yet she would have been in the same position she is now. So by your (and her) reasoning, she should be able to sue Blockbuster as well. Just because their program is more complicated, it still charges you extra fees if you don’t take the movie back when you’re supposed to.
The point is, anyone with half a brain should know that you can’t just rent a movie and keep it indefinately without ever getting charged another penny.
See, that point I agree with. She did in fact keep the movies for 25 days and they charged that to her account. She deserves to have to pay for the full retail amount of the movie by that point in time.
The point I don’t agree with is that Redbox advertises No Late Fees but does in fact charge them if the movie is brought back a day late. Sure, it is only another $1, but that is still a late fee.
Blockbuster was sued over this and lost. They have since changed their wording to make it more clear.
I suspect the lawyers have looked over the Redbox agreement and have found somewhere they can stick it to them. It doesn’t help Redbox’s cause that there are no clerks to explain the situation to the customers.
Deborah, Sean, Jody – perfect. well-said!
I think this could be settled out of court for a reasonable sum and the provision that “No Late Fees” be removed from any advertising.
And if anyone on here has not read the updated Terms of Use I suggest you do so. There is no longer a 25 day period upon which an “item” is sold. It is now called the maximum rental period and it varies from “item” to “item”. There is also a “Maximum Charge” per “item”. It varies from “item” to “item” and is no longer the $25 that most of us are familiar with.
I suspect some major changes are coming soon. Look for more detailed information when you rent via the touchscreen indicating the specifics of the transaction and an acceptance of a rental agreement. Similar to when you rent a “R” rated film. It might slow the transaction down 3-5 seconds but save “Redbox” from any future legal suits.
They really need to change the legal system in this country . Anyone who sues for ridiculous stuff like this should have to pay all legal fees and a fine for all the tax dollars they waist. 100 million dollars for a 50 dollar fee? Any judge who has in the past let these type of law suits pass should be fired. Like someone breaks into your house to rob you, slips on a grape and sues you and wins. Most law suits are to make easy money nothing more. This B knew very well what the terms of agreement were. She was just to lazy to return them and though of a way she could sue them. I assume this lady hasn’t worked a real job in her life and just wants easy money but what do you expect for Illinois and it crime rate. Just look it up there are hundreds of ridicules law suits each year costing tax payers millions.
They should also dis-bar any attorney who takes a case like this.
Actually that 100 million is a class action lawsuit which means that anyone that has been wronged by Redbox’s illegal collecting of late fees will be re-imbursed.
It does not mean that this individual plaintiff who is part of the class action gets the entire 100 million.
Almost every response is incredibly judgmental, without having heard the entire story nor knowing the woman yourselves.
I see no problem with lawsuits that are intended to benefit consumers…it’s the ones that sneakily benefit big corporations and push for deregulation that bother me.
If you don’t agree with the premise of the lawsuit, then don’t follow the story and don’t sue redbox for the same reason–it’s a matter between two private entities and will cost you nothing but your time spent being sanctimonious.
I once accidentally sent a redbox movie to netflix. I immediately notified netflix to alert them and ask them to send it back to me and then called redbox to inform them. Netflix said they may send it directly to redbox but I never heard anything about it–from netflix or redbox–but ended up getting charged the 25 dollars without even being able to keep the movie. For all I know, redbox received the movie and still charged me for keeping it (this isn’t an accusation, simply a hypothetical possibility).
Was it my own fault for being absent-minded? Yes. But had I used a local brick and mortar, it’s possible the fee could’ve been waived or at least adjusted considering the circumstances. I also realize, if anything, my complaint should be with netflix because they still got the movie that I was supposed to return–and possibly kept the accidental return for their own use. Either way, using a “virtual store/company” comes with risks and the lines of communication need to be drastically improved.
Netflix is a competitor of Redbox. If anything, I’d say Netflix would tell you that they’d return the dvd straight to Redbox BUT THEN not return it/keep it in hopes that you get so upset with Redbox for then being charged $25 that you drop Redbox and keep Netflix as your sole rental resource! I would have requested Netflix to return the dvd to me so at least you’d know if Netflix was being honest or not honest depending if you then receive the dvd back.
The banks charge me 36.00 dollars for 1.06 redbox overdraft . Go after the banks . That’s just crule so 1 nite 1 movie late is nothing. You get a free movie once a month .They have boxes everywhere and you can return any where.
Seems like someone needs to keep better track of their money. If they only charged a couple of dollars, people would be bouncing checks left and right.
There is clearly no late fees. There is certainly a rental fee or charge for renting a DVD which is clearly stated as $1/day with a return time of 9pm. It is then up to the consumer to decide how long she keeps the movie and how many $1 rentals she is willing to pay for a single DVD rental. The reason I believe Redbox will probably beat these charges is that there is no agreed upon date to return the dvd and thus the decision is left up to the consumer as to when the movie is returned. I agree with prior comment that a late fee for keeping a 2 day rental would be anything charged beyond $2 which Redbox does not do. Charging a $1/day for every day of rental beyond the 1st day is not a late fee as most people with common sense would think of it. The charge for additional days is simply what you agree upon when you rent a DVD from Redbox and it is stated on the machine clearly. This is just a case of someone wanting everything for free. Isn’t $1/day for renting a DVD dirt cheap. How much cheaper do people want it to be. Stupid lawsuits like this are pushing DVD rental into a quicker death and making watching movies online a reality.
this is the best answer of all of them
no late fee you have the option of renting for as many days as you wish and if you decide to rent more than 25 days the movie is yours no late fees
or rental fees. period
hope the ###%$@& loose the law suit and redbox sues them back
j a t virginia beach va
The Redbox policy is basically that you rent a dvd on a daily basis for $1 a day, OR you own the dvd if you decide to rent it 25 continuous days. With this as their policy, there can be no late fees. Just a choice of renting or owning the dvd.
right on
this is it no law suit
The whole thing revolves about whether there is a late fee or not. A “late fee” is hard to define and I think RedBox will prevail. What is being late? According to Webster: “Coming or remaining after the due, usual, or proper time.” When you rent at a RedBox there is no “due time” defined anywhere. I am not aware of any statistics that make a 24-hour period “usual”. And there is certainly nothing “improper” about keeping the movie for multiple days. The policy of RedBox is clearly stated: “RedBox – easy $1 a night DVD rentals. With no late or hidden fees ever.” You pay $1 for every 24-hour period and you do not pay anything ELSE. Their policy also explains late fees: “What if I’m late? At RedBox, there is no such thing as a late fee. Each night you will be charged the additional night fee plus tax.” A late fee would be, say a $0.50 charge that is tacked on to your dollar for the day, or something like that. But there is none of that, as their policy states.
If there have been any false advertising examples, I haven’t seen any. It is pretty simple, as the whole concept that RedBox is implementing, and attempting frivolous lawsuits isn’t helping anyone. Can RedBox improve their operations? Certainly, but they have done nothing horrific. One thing would be coming back to my previous thought – just charge by the hour (or even minute). I wonder if people would then think that the 4.2 cents charged for the following hour is a late fee…
Actually, Redbox doesn’t even define a rental period as being a 24-hour period. The terms/policy state a rental period as being you rent a dvd one day, the rental period extends until 9pm the next night. So say you rent/take out a dvd on Monday at 8am, the first rental period is until 9pm Tuesday–which is longer than 24 hours. If you rent it at 11:45pm on Monday, the first rental period is until 9pm Tuesday–which is less than 24 hours. If you keep it past 9pm the following day, then you are renting the dvd for an additional rental period.
And that is where the problem lies. If it was just 24 hrs then they could probably get away with it. But they have a return time, which means if it is returned after that time, it is late.
Redbox will lose this one. They should not have used the term No Late Fees.
There were plenty of other lawsuits out there for them to look at before they did this. All of them have the retailers losing.
The 9PM time is not a return time – it is just the time at which the next period begins, hence, no late fee.
You cannot say it is $1.00 a day to rent a movie and then define that day as ending at 9 pm. You end up getting sued if you do.
If someone rents a movie at 10:30 pm do they get a day?
Day – the period between sunrise and sunset.
Seriously, though, Redbox’s terms define a day as being the period between the day you rent and the following day at 9pm. It’s simple and in most cases generous. There are only 3 hrs in any given day in which you could rent a dvd and have your day (as defined by Redbox) last less than 24 hrs. If you rent just after midnight, your day (again, as defined by Redbox) lasts much longer than 24 hrs – about 45 hrs. It’s also helpful that they don’t define a day as EXACTLY 24 hrs after your rental because who could remember that they needed to return this dvd by 3:47pm one day and that dvd by 7:09pm another day, etc.
So, when you rent from Redbox you’re agreeing to their clear and simple terms that a day ends at 9pm the following day. Easy.
If 9pm was a ‘return’ time that if you returned it after 9pm you are always charged a late fee, then what if you rent the dvd on Monday at 7pm and then return it that same Monday at 9:30pm?
The lawsuit will just concetrate on deceptive advertising.
Redbox claims it is $1.00 a day to rent their movies. This is not true.
Redbox claims there are NO LATE FEES. This is not true.
Having said that, Redbox should just settle like every other retailer before them, change the wording in their advertising and hand out the free coupons as payment.
I think this is ridiculas… It clearly states $1 PER DAY plus tax with the day ending at 9PM the following DAY if you choose to keep it after that time you will pay $1 more plus tax for every extra day YOU choose to keep it. It is not a late fee because you are not getting charged anything extra than that $1 PER DAY plus tax you agreed on. It is not misleading it’s just peoples way of mixing up words to be interpreted in advantage to the point they are trying to make. If this lady wins this case there is something seriously wrong with the Judicial system.
Sorry, but is you say that you get a day but then define that day as ending at 9PM you are leaving yourself open for a lawsuit.
If they had said late fees apply to movies returned after 9PM they would have been fine.
When you declare NO LATE FEES then you cannot have a due date.
If they had just said it was $1.00 a day and then set the return time at 24 hrs after the initial rental period, then they would have been fine
Trust me, this has been gone over in court many times in the past. Redbox is in the wrong, they will settle quickly and it will only cost them some rental coupons. It is lame but they should have known better though.
Wrong. There are no late fees, only a dollar a day – the “day” being defined in Redbox’s terms (which you agree to when you rent) as ending the following day at 9pm.
See my reply to you above for a more in depth/lengthier explanation.
I understand your explanation but it will not stand up a court of law. The term “day” is ambiguous. To define it as ending at 9 pm is not going to be allowed when you also say that there are NO LATE FEES.
I’m not saying that you are wrong, I am telling you that according to the law, your definition will not fly. The law and common sense have little to do with each other sadly.
This has happened multiple times in the past with B&M video store lawsuits. They always lose. Redbox will lose this time too. It is sad but true.
I admit I don’t know anything about previous video store lawsuits so I’ll take your word for it, but I have to disagree with your assessment in this case. Redbox can’t be expected to guess whether you meant (and failed) to return your dvd that day “on time” or whether you decided to keep it another day. They have to draw the line somewhere as being the end of your rental day and the start of the next one, i.e. 2nd rental day. Midnight doesn’t quite work for returns/end of rental day since not all Redboxes are available 24 hrs, so 9pm was probably just a judgment call.
And so, like I said previously, when you rent from them you legally agree that the following day at 9pm is the end of your “rental day”. If you keep it beyond that time, you’ve agreed to those same terms for another “rental day”. It may “feel” like a late fee, but since you’ve agreed to their rental terms it’s not.
I do, however, agree with you about the law and “common sense” often being mutually exclusive – but then “common sense” isn’t very common is it? I think, maybe, you meant to say uncommon sense.
Redbox has no choice but to make sure they are in the right when they decide to charge your credit card for more money. To do otherwise constitutes fraud.
If there is even one situation where someone was unable to access a Redbox machine before 9pm, they are screwed by their own policy.
When you run a business, you have to think of every possible thing that can go wrong otherwise you’ll end up in court.
Again, Redbox is the one taking the money from their customer for the late movie / extra day rental. They have to 100% sure that the movie is overdue because of the customer rather than for some other circumstance. That is the problem with automated services.
“have to be 100% sure movie is overdue because of the customer”… I don’t know about that. Any customer dealing with any business can make an excuse to put the blame on someone or something else–other than on their own irresponsibility. Think of how millions of people are charged over draft charges by their banks. These people could come up with a million excuses why they didn’t make it to the bank to make a deposit on time–such as traffic, an accident, family emergency–to make sure proper funds were in their bank account before they overspent.
Banks get sued because of improper overdraft charges too.
The excuses you said are not excuses that would work.
But if there are Redboxes that are not reachable at the 9:00 pm deadline because they are locked up in a store then that would put the onus back on Redbox.
I don’t think that Redbox would allow a business to have an indoor kiosk unless the business is open until at least 9pm.
Good points by John Small regarding “common sense” and the law not always in agreement–sadly; and Lakrow’s point that when the Redbox customer rents a dvd, they have agreed to Redbox’s terms/definition of what constitutes a one-day rental period ending at 9pm the day after taking out the dvd. The customer has not agreed that they have to bring it back by 9pm or get a late fee. They have agreed that they can rent the dvd , for $1 day, however many rental periods/days they ‘choose’ up to 25 days at which time they then own the dvd. Also, I was thinking….What if you rent a Redbox dvd Monday pacific time, travel, and then return it the next day on the east coast, 8:59pm eastern time?
The customer has agreed to whatever terms RedBox has clearly laid out in their “terms”, not in what you say you think they have. The consumers cannot interpret advertisement in any way they like. And the fact that the predominant majority of consumers have interpreted those terms properly shows that RedBox’s advertisement and the availability of their terms is perfectly fine. The fact that a few slow-thinking specimens have decided to claim that they interpreted it differently (while they are probably just being greedy) doesn’t change that.
Correction–meant to say what if they returned it at 11:59pm eastern time which would be like 8:59pm pacific. Would they be charged for a second rental day?
This is ridiculous. When a vendor offers a product for sale it defines the terms. There is no commonly accepted definition of “late fee” and the one defined for traditional rental stores does not apply to a unique rental model such as RedBox’s. The greed of some consumers is absurd and is just plain bad for business. I wonder if the Studios are involved in this.
Again the problem is one of interpretation.
I agree that Redbox has set out the terms fairly clearly. But they do confuse the situation by saying there are NO LATE FEES.
This is what will be argued in court. This is why Redbox will lose.
Is it right? Not really. Does that matter? Not really.
If Redbox had not said NO LATE FEES then they probably would have been fine.
The studios will not have been involved. It will likely have been lawyer who saw the other victories in court and was looking for a plaintiff so that he could get Redbox on the same thing. Easy money for him.
Redbox will settle quickly so that they don’t have to rack up big legal fees. Then they will reword things on their machines and in their agreement.
And there are NO late fees, as it was already explained. RedBox never charges late fees – period. This is why the case will be thrown out of court as frivolous despite what all the haters are saying.
There are late fees being charged. You can deny this all you want by saying that it is just a extra day rental charge but the reality is that it is a late fee.
The courts have been through this multiple times with all the same defences being thrown about here. Every time it happens, the retailer loses.
This is the reality. It may not be what you like to hear but it is true.
Should Redbox have to pay out? No. Will they have to pay out? Yes.
Settle quickly, hand out the credits, keep the legal costs low, change the wording. Easiest and cheapest route possible.
Your hired!
Did anyone ever stop to think about the fact that Redbox sells those movies in their kiosks for only $7….because they do this they cannot charge a $25 fee for the movie under any circumstance. When they started selling them for this price they violated their own agreement.
Are ALL movies everywhere for sale at $7? Not at my RedBox. The $25 is excessive but there must be some limit. Otherwise, if say a 7-day limit were imposed instead, at $1 a day, everyone could own a DVD for about the same money that BlockBuster charges for a single rental.
I don’t find the $25 excessive since the customer kept the dvd for 25 days. That’s 25 days that the dvd, especially if a new release dvd, could have been rented at $1 per day to other customers. Redbox lost a possible $25 in rental fees, so the customer who keeps it for 25 days should pay $25 to own it.
You simply cannot argue that in court. You will not win.
Let’s say I get injured because of someone else’s negligence/irresponsibility. Because of my physical injury, I can not work for 25 days, therefore, I lose 25 days worth of work salary. The person who caused my injury is then responsible (or their insurance) to pay me my 25 days of lost wages. Person keeps a Redbox new release for 25 days, thus Redbox loses a potential 25 days/$25 in rental fees that other customers could have/would have paid had the dvd been available in the kiosk. So yes, I think the irresponsible person who keeps the dvd for 25 days, whether they meant to or by accident, is then responsible to pay Redbox $25 for the dvd and the $25 certainly isn’t in excess since Redbox only charges $1 per day. Redbox would win this suit easily. Wow,–this suing Redbox over late fees sure has been getting blogger responses. We must have tired from the weeks of Redbox vs studios/studios vs Redbox topic!
Redbox needs to prove that the actual cost of replacement is $25.00. They cannot just charge for lost income. It has been tried in court many times and the argument always loses.
No, they don’t; there is no grounds that require that. RedBox would easily win the lawsuit.
This plastic bag is not a toy. Caution coffee is very hot. Common sense has left the building and lawsuits have entered. Everyone knows coffee is hot – but that didn’t stop someone from suing McDonalds. A plastic bag is not a toy – seems obvious enough but it’s there to protect the company.
Thus ‘no late fees’ means I take the DVD out and if I return it late (3 days or 2 weeks later) there should be no late fees. They should have gone with $1 day rental – every extra day is another $1 – maxium rental is 24 days on the 25th day your account will be charged $24 and you will own the movie.
I hate class action lawsuits. Politicians need to man up to the Trial Lawyers $$$$ and change the laws.
I know. Fortunately, most people have common sense, otherwise we would all be suing Redbox. but….there are certain ‘people’ the world has to deal with. Let’s just be happy our parents raised us right, and understand that we can’t fix the stupid ones out there.
You cannot be late if no one said when it is due. And – no, the 9PM on the next night is not when it is due, it is simply when the next day (as RedBox calls their rental period) begins.
If you try to argue that in court, you will lose. The implication is there. That is enough for the lawsuit to win.
Courts require proof. You have none here, the case will be dismissed.
Sorry dude. I know it sucks but what I’m saying is the reality of the situation.
Redbox charges you money if you do not get your movie back by a certain time. That is a late fee. You can call it by another name but it is still a late fee.
Video stores have tried to defend themselves with exactly the same defence as you are trying to put out for Redbox. They always lose. Always.
That is all the proof I need. Precedent has been set. Precedent will rule the day.
Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. Calling things by the wrong name doesn’t make then true. RedBox is not a rental store and none of that rubbish applies. Times are changing and greedy studios and their pawns will have to swallow the bitter pill. RedBox will win the lawsuit hands down.
From the Redbox website under FAQ:
“What if I’m late?
At redbox, there is no such thing as a late fee. Each night you will be charged the additional night fee plus tax.”
So if I return the movie at 9:05pm has another ‘night’ passed?
Whether a night has passed or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you are entitled to another one.
“What if I’m late?
At redbox, there is no such thing as a late fee. Each night you will be charged the additional night fee plus tax.”
That can’t be any more clearer to me, so I guess I will never understand how someone couldn’t well, get it.
At 9:05pm, you have exceeded the time for your rental, which means you have moved on to the next day. Obviously it hasn’t been a whole nother night yet, but will you have to pay $2? yes. do you still have until the next night at 9pm to return it? yes.
I own a video store and I too charge an additional rental fee of $1 a day for late movies. When the customer comes in next, I tell them they have a late charge or I could just as easily call it an additional night fee. Either way, they are paying that extra $1 a night which is a “late charge”.
According to what people are saying here, as long as I call it additional night fee instead of a late charge that I could in theory advertise that I don’t charge late charges. I wonder how many customers I would lose if I charged “additional night fees” while advertising No Late Fees. There is no difference in the terms and that is where Redbox is going to lose the suit.
Redbox seriously screwed up when they advertised No Late Fees and they are going to pay for it in the end. They should have just left it alone and stuck with the $1 a day rental with $1 additional night fee and they would have been fine.
Someone made a HUGE mistake and they are going to end up paying for it. I wouldn’t want to be the person that came up with the idea of advertising No Late Fees. They should have simply researched prior no late fee cases that appeared before the courts.
When your customers first rent their movies, do they only pay a $1 for each one and have 1 day to return them? If, when they first rent the movies you charge more and they get to keep it longer than a day, your $1/day each additional day IS a late fee. Otherwise, charging the same amount each rental period, like Redbox’s $1/day every day, isn’t a late fee.
They don’t pay $1, they pay $2.99 and the movies are due back the next day at 9pm just like redbox. I give an hour grace period until 10pm. Anything after that gets a $1 late charge or as people on here like to call it an additional rental charge. Customers know that if they keep it late that they are going to have to pay that $1 a day late charge.
I certainly don’t advertise that I have no late charges, so customers know and expect that they will pay a late charge if they are late past that time.
If I advertised No Late Charges, I wouldn’t be able to charge them that extra $1 a day.
I have no problem with Redbox’s business model, all the power to them, and if you are a video store that can’t compete then you should go out of business. The problem lies in deceptive and misleading advertising and just because they are kiosks instead of brick and mortar does not give them the legal right to do that.
My prediction is that they are going to lose the suit and they will be changing their advertising so that it is not misleading.
Since you charge $2.99 when a movie is first rented, you would have to charge $2.99 for a new day’s rental each additional day to be able to claim “No late fees” like Redbox. They charge $1 each day you rent a movie, whether you checked it out of the machine that day or decided to keep/rent it another day. You’re obviously better off charging a $1/day late fee.
I do agree that they’ll probably remove the “No late fee” slogan in any case because everyone already understands that to be true, and since people will sue over anything these days it’s just not worth the trouble.
Wow, a competitor of redbox stating that redbox is in the wrong.
There are no late fees. A late fee would be something like “You didn’t bring it back on time, you’ve now been charged $5 as a fee”, as opposed to a daily rental fee, such as a car rental being $19.95 per day. There are no late fees on that either, you simply pay $19.95 for each day you have the car.
This woman suing is probably the same woman who sued Mcdonalds for $16 million because she spilled hot coffee on herself and sued because the coffee was hot.
Or maybe she’s a stupid naive movie shop owner like you who is about to go out of business.
LOL, see that is the funny thing, you can spout whatever you want on the internet without knowing the facts.
Take a look at previous lawsuits when it comes to late fees. How you can continue to ignore the obvious that you can’t advertise No Late Fees and then go ahead and charge late fees is beyond me.
Your example is flawed. The car rental company has never advertised that they don’t charge late fees. They have always maintained that you pay additional rental fees. You could also call this a late fee since it is the fee that you are charged for returning the vehicle late.
Redbox is the same way, they charge additional day fees and there is nothing wrong with that business model. If Redbox had simply left their advertising to the $1 a day charge, then they would have no problems. It is the fact that they advertised No Late Fees that has gotten them into this particular problem.
As for my video store going out of business, that would be something to see. My sales are up 20% in each of the last two years. Hell, I am hoping that Blockbuster goes out of business more than I am worried about Redbox. Blockbuster and Movie Gallery have poor business models to compete against Redbox. The smart video store owner will fight Redbox in areas that Redbox doesn’t have a hope of competing.
It is insane to compare the policies of a rental store to RedBox’s. We’ve been over that so many times that it is obvious that rental-store owners, studio lovers and other pawns are just keeping this up to vent frustrations and make noise. Well, you should try another forum as people here are not blind and you’ll always get capped off.
“So if I return the movie at 9:05pm has another ‘night’ passed?”
No, but it only says “Each night you will be charged”, not “After each night has passed you will be charged”. They mean exactly what they say.
I would think that all Redbox’s are put in locations that people would visit more than once a month. So this lady went to a store or whatever with a Redbox, and never went back that entire month she had the movies? Uh duh! Its her laziness that got her the fees. However, Redbox may want to re-word a few things so they can stay out of the hot seat for the big question of whether or not they can say “no late fees”.
Its a $1 a day, period. $1 everyday. Simple, straight forward. Dah!
I always thought the return time was the weakest part of the Redbox plan. I started renting shortly after the time was changed (at least locally) to 9 PM; before that it was 7 PM. But regardless, Redbox is saying that to rent, a new day starts at 12:00 AM, but to return a new day starts at 9:00 PM.
The rent and return new days should probably be the same. Maybe it should just be that you return within 24 hours of renting. The nice thing about a system like that is that for stores with limited hours, there’s no kiosk traffic jam at a peak hour.
I agree..that the return time/ rental time sucks. I get off work at 9…I tend to try not to rent on the week day because if i rent my rental will begin between 9:30 – 10…I go a different route to go to work than I do to return ( I use a toll way in the mornings to ensure I get to work on time and to save money I use an alternate route in the evenings) and I don’t usually have the time in the mornings to go to the redbox before work…SO… if i rent on a week day … and I don’t go out of my way to return the video less than 13 hrs after I rented it then I have to pay for an extra day for an exactly 24 hr rental
Bogus lawsuit. Just another opportunist trying to get rich off the backs of hard working innovative people.
Its like this:
The fees are posted on a sign on the front of the kiosk.
You agree to the terms at the checkout screen
The fees are also posted online at their website
There are no “late fees”, as stated on the kiosk, the dvd’s are $1 per night.
As for the $25 being more than a typical DVD, go check places like Blockbuster who charge you $50-$100 for a lost DVD.
I wonder who else “I” could sue for giving me what they advertise?
My question-let’s assume this lady returned the movie at 9:15 instead of 8:30 pm after keeping it for 2 or 3 days. At $1 a night, the charge should have been $3-4 with tax. How the hell did she end up getting charged $25 for the movie? How long did she keep the dam movie before she returned it?
Stupid greedy people. All they do is mess things up for the rest of us. The lawsuit should be reverse to go after the lawyer and Ms. Piechur’s for her bad taste.
The one time I had a problem w/Redbox was when I found a charge on my credit card for a money that I didn’t rent. If you movie is late for that long why hadn’t they emailed me and told me I needed to return the movie? Instead, I found out by looking at my credit card bill.
I don’t think it’s a frivilous lawsuit. It hadn’t been thirty (30) days since I supposedly rented the movie.
Fair is fair. Not a 100 million dollars worth . . .
If you provide an email address, they send you a message confirming the rental. If you didn’t get it, then something went wrong, other than their policy and practices. They can’t send you a reminder to return it because, as has been discussed here at length, you never told them for how long you intend to keep the movie (hence, no late fees).maybe you wanted to keep it, not their problem – you need to take some responsibility for your actions.