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901669_boxing_glovesI was just writing a response to one of our frequent commenters – Joey – who takes the side of the studios in this battle. Instead of just posting the comment as a response to his, I thought I would write a new post and get thoughts from all of you.

Here is my response to Joey, and to any others who may be siding with the studios in all of this…

Joey,

The problem with most of your comments is that they are too one-sided. Are you really so blind to reality that you cannot see any valid parts of the other side of the argument here? Either that is the case, or you are a shill for the studios for some reason.

The reality of the situation is much simpler than you are making it. People don’t buy movies as much any more because the value proposition is low. If you only watch a movie once or twice, paying to own it not only makes little sense, it is stupid. Also, the quality and originality of films has decreased greatly over the past years. How many remakes have the studios made in the past 10 years? The number has certainly increased over the 10 years before that.

You may argue that the $1 price point that Redbox uses has increased the speed of the downward spiral the studios have been on over the past decade or so, and you are likely correct. However, keep in mind that I have seen $1 rentals at grocery stores for many years now and no one was complaining about those. Also, Netflix and the Blockbuster Total Access also move the cost of rentals lower and lower, in some cases to less than $1 paid per movie based on rental habits.

So, what is the “solution”? Well, aside from the fact that I don’t think there is one that the studios are going to like, they do exist.

1) Raise the price of DVDs. If the studios raise the wholesale price of DVDs, retailers and wholesalers will have to charge their buyers more. Of course, if studios think DVD sales are down now, try raising the price on the consumer and see what happens.

2) Go back to their “rental-first” model and sell DVDs at much higher price points to rental companies for the first little while. Of course, this is similar to the above strategy, and will make consumers even less likely to buy the movie later because they already had to pay a high price for the rental. So, either consumer will wait and not rent at the high prices, or they will rent and not buy later.

3) Create a partnership among major studios (a la Hulu) and buy Redbox. Then they can control the distribution channels and the price of a rental.

Now obviously, I like Redbox and think they provide a valuable service in a down economy. But, for the record, I also use Netflix and generally watch more movies from them than from Redbox. Once Redbox gets blu-ray in my area, this may change, but for now it is the reality for me.

So, Joey, what you are doing is fighting the future. Either suggest a solution that is fair for everyone, or you comments will continue to make you look like a bitter studio exec who doesn’t want to have to give up his Maserati and 3rd vacation home in the Hamptons.

So, what do you think? Am I totally off base here? Are the studios right? Is Redbox right? Do you have a better solution? Please share your thoughts in the comments – I would love to hear them!

177 Responses to “Movie Studios vs Redbox: What are the Real Options?”

  1. Visitor [Join Now]
    TexasRebel [visitor]
    I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

    As long as I can get all my rentals for free I say screw Joey and all his BS. Suck it studios!!!

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Colleen [visitor]

      The industry along with the world has forgotten the old adadge about making fast nickels vs slow dimes. People don’t want to pay $5.00 to rent a movie for 5 days when they only watch it that first night.
      Think about it. Hollywood Video in my area charges $4.95 to rent a movie for 5 days. That’s less than $1.00 per day. Redbox charges $1.00/day. What’s the difference?

      I’ve paid as much as $15 to redbox to watch 1 movie because I had stuff come up. Redbox in my area is always out of the “good” movies. As to where Hollywood is always stocked. Even before redbox came to the area. They are getting the same darn $1 a day. What’s the difference if it goes to redbox or a chainstore??? Who’s really doing the whining? Chainstores who’ve been ripping us off for years or is it really film makers?

      What has redbox really done??? Done away with late fees…

  2. Visitor [Join Now]
    Robert [visitor]

    Michael,

    Great post! Love the X-files reference :)

    I hate to say it but I love checking out this site to find a new Joey post. It’s like watching a car accident, and it makes my day just to read how I am killing the movie industry by renting from Redbox. He acts like they are stealling DVD’s then renting them to us for a $1.

    I bet he hovers over this site and refreshes the page waiting to pounce on an unexpecting redbox renter. But at least he helps you in your ad revenue!

    So keep posting Joey, even though most of us think your wrong, your fun to watch!

  3. Member [Join Now]
    ChadCronin [chadcronin]

    I agree. Although I got bad chills picturing studios buying Redbox. I do think they either need to either change their model for everyone or no one or just focus on making quality movie that people want.

  4. Visitor [Join Now]
    JR [visitor]

    I love how you state the obvious on how grocery stores rent out DVDs for a $1. You also prove the point that Hollywood has run out of good genuine ideas and creativity. Seriously, how many sequels to bring it on do we want to watch?!

  5. Visitor [Join Now]
    Sean [visitor]

    Redbox isn’t doing anything new, they’re just doing it well. Don’t hate the player, studios, hate the game.

  6. Member [Join Now]
    moviecrazy

    Michael, I was totally elated to see you post this article about Joey. I for one am really tired of all his ridiculous arguments that really have no merit. You had a lot of very good points. I would really hate to see the studios buy Redbox because I’m sure the rental prices would be too high, probably way too high. Anyway, keep up the good work, I love your site!

  7. Member [Join Now]
    pardis

    Hey Joey if you are so concerned about Redbox “killing” the movie industry what about all those bootleg DVD’s? I would think that Redbox, by offering movie rentals for $1.00 would help stop this type of illegal activity and actually help the movie industry.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      Most people count on Morals and Ethics to do that. But yes piracy is another huge issue in this industry which is why the studios and film makers are pushing into 3D because it prevents this. Once again the studios will take the steps it needs to to protect their product as they should. But what the studios are loosing in piracy pales in comparison to what they are loosing with the $1 a day rentals.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      guest [visitor]

      not really i use to rent movies from redbox or get them free with a ton of free codes and take them home and burn off my own copies with the quaility just as good so thank redbox for all the free movies i now have in my collection (currently at 800)

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        TexasRebel [visitor]
        I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        The quality is NOT just as good burning yourself.

        Original DVD and Blu-Ray are way better if you have the right TV and surround sound. CDs are of way better quality than MP3s also, but since they are free I put up with it.

        Again, that’s why I love Redbox giving all the freebies.

        I will lower myself if I’m forced though.

        • Member [Join Now]
          captmovie

          When making an exact copy of a DVD or CD the playback quality is identical regardless of your TV and surround sound capability.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            TexasRebel [visitor]
            I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Unless you’re using software that I’m unaware of, I think you are mistaken.

            If it’s DVDshrink, you are definitely wrong!

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            No DVDshrink. I said exact copy. Check around.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            TexasRebel [visitor]
            I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Even with “Exact” you have the problems with burners plus their software settings.

            Although it claims to be an exact copy, you truly are losing something. A pressed copy will always be better than a burned. 99.9% Success rate with pressed vs. trusting software.

            We’ll have to agree to disagree.

            Moot points since we still get our freebies!!!

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Randy [visitor]

        Dear Guest,

        It’s one thing if you burn music, most musicians (the big ones) couldn’t care less. But here, your are hurting Redbox, not the big studios. Why burn it; are you that greedy. Just get a free promo code.

  8. Visitor [Join Now]
    TexasRebel [visitor]
    I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

    Like Michael said, you have to be stupid to buy a movie. As long as Redbox keeps buying I see no problems.

  9. Visitor [Join Now]
    Joey [visitor]
    I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

    Micheal
    First of all to answer your question I do not work for any studios, nor do I drive a Maserati or do I have a 3rd vacation home in the Hamptons. I am just one more person being affected by Red box’s devaluing of the Entertainment Industry. I actually Rent the house I live in, I have 3 kids and I struggle to make ends meet just like most other people.

    You say my comments are too one-sided or that I am really so blind to reality that I cannot see any valid parts of the other side of the argument here?

    As before I acknowledge the fact that $1 rentals are nicer than paying $2 or $3 that goes without saying. The points I delve into here are obviously more then that. But it is my opinion that a nights worth of Entertainment is worth more than a bag of chips out of a vending machine and I do not find any validity to any comments saying that it is. And I know especially when people use the free codes or get their rentals for $1 that most people believe they are getting away with something. Name one other product out there that has seen it’s perceived value desimated as much as Redbox has done to packaged media. Sure innovation, I get that but at what cost?

    i would be real interested in having you explain to me how you don’t see my arguement that “Redbox is devaluing packaged media” Especially since redbox has went in full market share mode and flooded the market with machines resulting in 13.5% losses on Sell Thru yet having 8% gains in rentals. Please enlighten me with more of your arguement about studios putting out crappier movies.(talk about one sided arguements) If that was the case then what are these people watching to have rentals grow as they have? And if you really think this is the case wait until you see the quality of movies that will be availabe in a devalued industry.

    As far as what you said ….
    what is the “solution”? Well, aside from the fact that I don’t think there is one that the studios are going to like, they do exist.

    I think….
    the solution will end up being one that Red box won’t like and it to exsist…

    1. wrap windows of 30 to 45 days around release availability to kiosk protecting the value of Rentals to brick and morter, as well as sell thru/retail. If people are only willing to pay $1 then wait the extra month and have at it. Just as there is a place in the movie theatre industry for $1 movie theatres there is a place for kiosk with $1 rentals just not on the day of release.
    2. Continue to deny titles to redbox and watch them struggle and go under. Even with the 3 studios supporting them the economics of trying to have 60% of the titles bought at retail will destroy this business model. That plus customers will be fed up with not being able to get the movies they are searching for eventually getting sick of trying.
    3. Red box could adjust the pricing on the releases. If convience is truely the biggest advantage that vending offers then it shouldn’t be an issue to raise the rental rates to a value price not a devalue price.

    Of course on this web site I am 1 against 100. This site was designed to promote redbox and the free codes. Getting the public to see what is happening to this industry is an uphill battle especially when redbox throws out cheaper pricing and sometimes just free movies to have public sentiment on their side. But what redbox is doing to this industry is not innovation, kiosk have been around since the 90’s, they are in a complete grab for market share. My point is this….

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      The devaluing of this industry by red box is great for customers right now because they get to rent cheaper movies. But the affects of this go along ways….
      75% of films budget go to support below the line workers that don’t drive ferraris they are just working Joe’s like me or you.
      Video rental stores that contribute to local economies, provide jobs and help keep a community thriving are going to be the first casulties.
      The minor studios that put out decent independent films will be gone.
      The debth of titles gone, Selection gone.
      The quality of films gone. If as micheal says havn’t been good lately wait it will get much worse.
      Then the ripple affect downward affects an entire Indusrtry. As has happened in the music industry, the news paper industry, This to will happen in the entertainment industry

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Joey [visitor]
        I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        The Studios don’t need redbox it’s the other way around……….
        Enjoy twisting and turning all my comments around (as usual) you say my arguement is one sided I could say the same thing to you as well.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          Oh yeah don’t forget to rip on this arguement of mine as well…..
          Savelowcostdvd’s is just a sham site that redbox puts out trying to win in the court of public opinion because they don’t feel they can win in court. (I love that one)

      • Administrator
        Michael [administrator]

        Joey,

        First off, let me just say that I have nothing against your comments or you at all. I do not attempt to “twist and turn” what you say, either. In another thread you mentioned personal attacks – I do not believe I have made any. I am only interested in the debate and ideas that can improve things for everyone.

        However, you still do not do yourself any favors by hiding who you are and what you do. Unfortunately you have been doing it for so long, that it doesn’t really matter what you say now because it could easily be believed to be lies so you can strengthen your position.

        I also want to say that I don’t hate the studios, nor do I have some special love for Redbox. What I do have is a strong belief in capitalism and supply and demand. I am in no way against both the studios and Redbox trying to maximize their profits.

        The quality of movies have definitely declined over the years. If you don’t see that, I am not sure what to say. Now, there are certainly some movies that are great, but I am referring to the overall output of the movie industry – it is down and getting worse.

        Your argument about “wait it will get much worse” is just silly. The way to turn things around is not by trying to increase the price of an inferior product, it is to increase the value of it. That is done by increasing quality and/or lowering price.

        You keep bringing in the music industry and the newspaper industry. The reason these industries are “down” has nothing to do with someone “devaluing the industry”. It has to do with that little thing called “technology”. As technology advances, delivery systems change. THIS is what happened to those industries, and this is what is happening to the movie industry.

        The newspaper industry is dead, because paper has been replaced with lcd screens. However, the companies that were once “newspaper” companies are adapting, too.

        And, while I don’t really see the music industry as being “down”, I do see them finally adapting after 10 years of fighting. Did they win with their ridiculous lawsuits and trying to stop technology? And if they didn’t win, what makes you think the movie studios – who are trying to fight the exact same battle – will get their way?

        Let me ask you – an everyone – a simple question. Has the reach of the movie studios increased or decreased in recent years? Has Redbox caused less movies to be watch or more? How about Netflix? Grocery stores? iTunes?

        I think the answer is obvious. The “reach” of the studios is greater than it has ever been. So I say, instead of trying to hold on to the past, they need to figure out how to leverage their additional reach into additional income. It can be done, and it will.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          Thanks Micheal
          but as far as saying who I am and who I work for….
          I think I’d like to keep that personal. As much as I’d like a bunch of people calling me up at work trying to debate their points of view I think I’ll keep my identity to myself just as every single other person on this site does.

          • Member [Join Now]
            moviecrazy

            You don’t have to say “where” you work, just what “type” of work you do…just another bullcrap excuse….as usual! That’s ok, we all know you work for the movie studios or blockbuster, so no biggie.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        George [visitor]

        BLAH BLAH BLAh BLAH

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Robert [visitor]

      Your words:
      “I am just one more person being affected by Red box’s devaluing of the Entertainment Industry. I actually Rent the house I live in, I have 3 kids and I struggle to make ends meet just like most other people.”

      Your post from this site:
      “if that’s to expensive for you I’d find another job instead of sitting here on this site all day”

      You said it!

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Joey [visitor]
        I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        You make no sense. I am not complaining about my life. I despite my circumstances will not support something that I see as a detrament to an Industry. I would rather support my local stores and local economy.

        Once again I’m up for the me against everyone on this site debate. My message is still being read despite any personal attacks you or moviecrazy, or Michael or anyone else would like to use.

        My points are valid.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Robert [visitor]

          I didn’t ask you to support it, but you are supporting it by posting on a Redbox sponsered site…

          Hey I read all your posts, please don’t stop. This “debate” is better than the last 2 movies I saw. I just need to fuel the fire when it gets quiet.

        • Member [Join Now]
          moviecrazy

          Again, (for the 100th time) your points are NOT valid, never have been, never will be. If you don’t like this site why do you get on it? Why don’t you do us ALL a huge favor and just get the hell off this site! It’s obvious no one wants you here, can’t you take a hint? I bet you force your wife to have “relations” with you too, just like you try to force your bullshit opinion on everyone. Nobody’s buying your argument so why don’t you just give up and get a life instead of trolling this “site all day”! You say I’m on this site all day, I am not but you sure seem to be!!!

        • Member [Join Now]
          moviecrazy

          There’s nothing more to say MORON! I and EVERYONE ELSE have debated you until we’re blue in the face and you still don’t get it! You’re just too dense and stupid to figure it out so there’s nothing else to say. That’s why I didn’t “contribute” any thing else! Just like now.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Keith [visitor]

      I think that there are a lot of movies being viewed that would have never been seen if it weren’t for Redbox’s low rental price. A lot of “B” movies are being rented and Redbox is providing the lesser known directors with smaller budgets an opprotunity to get thier films before the masses.

      What a great opprotunity redbox is providing. Movies that have no reason even going to the big screen can still make a profit for movie studios with this outlet.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Sean [visitor]

        I like this point. It’s so true. There are MANY movies I would not have considered watching were it not for redbox and their per-night rentals.

        Notice how I said “per-night rentals” instead of something like “low prices.” Because, as has been pointed out here, they do not actually charge less than other stores, they just let you rent by the night.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        rb [visitor]

        Agree. You make a good point Keith.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Tony [visitor]
        I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        How is this a good point Red box dosn’t carry the B titles. there is only room for a limited selection which is why they only carry the big hits.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Randy [visitor]

      How about a compromise. Have new releases $2.00 with no promo allowed. Then wait a month, like you say, let the brick and mortars get something. And then put it up for a dollar or a promo. Don’t you think that will be a better compromise????????

  10. Member [Join Now]
    clownphart

    Redbox sets the price. Redbox gives out the free codes . Nobody is twisting their arm. If you think that devalues the product thats your opinion and everybodys got one.

  11. Visitor [Join Now]
    Consumer [visitor]

    No matter how this turns out, in the near future you will not see a $1 price point for much longer. If allmighty itunes has to charge $1.29 for some songs, Redbox will not be to far behind.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      rumblefish [visitor]

      Has anyone ever seen if Itunes is seeing less downloads? Is it because of price or is it because everyone has filled their IPODS with the old favorites and now it’s just about new stuff?

      Hmmmmm

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      jMac [visitor]

      I’m actually surprised the rentals are not $1.49. Once the credit card companies take their cut from the convenience of using the card itself, the $1 rental becomes, what, 65 cents in the pocket of Redbox?

      I’m not 100% convinced that iTunes “has” to charge $1.29 for some songs. I think that price is negotiated by the record labels and/or the artists themselves. Over time, as demand weans, I’m sure the price will drop.

      • Administrator
        Michael [administrator]

        Redbox likely has many of their transactions fall into the “micro-payment” category. I would be surprised if they pay more than 10 cents for a $1 transaction.

        I do agree that rental prices will likely trend upward just a bit. Personally, I think $1.49 for the first night and $1 for additional nights is fine and appropriate, especially on new releases within say the first 30 days of release.

        We’ll see what happens!

  12. Visitor [Join Now]
    Joey [visitor]
    I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

    Prime examples of what Red box has been causing to the entertainment industry
    Taken from this site………….

    captmovie says:
    September 28, 2009 at 10:15 am
    Doesn’t matter to us. If the movie isn’t available on Redbox we won’t be renting it. I’ll just download and burn the movie instead.

    Reply
    TexasRebel says:
    September 28, 2009 at 12:06 pm
    Exactly, mess with us and we will still get them for free!!!

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Jeoy [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      Here’s another great consumer redbox is spawning…….
      TexasRebel says:
      September 28, 2009 at 11:08 am
      As long as I can get all my rentals for free I say screw Joey and all his BS. Suck it studios!!!

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      rumblefish [visitor]

      actually Joey
      I think Captmovie has been downloading and burning illegally for a long time and its actually redbox that has curtailed his illegal activities. Don’t you think that makes more sense? Just a thought. Between me and you, I like having you here..your points are valid to some degree. My point is that I think while redbox causes problems for the exisitng structure you should try …just TRY..thinking of this. There are a lot of other factors that contribute to the problem and if you kill redbox, those problems will still be there. It’s kind of like the cancer was always there, festering slowly..and rebox is the open sore that sent the studios to FINALLY take their illness seriously.
      Movie sales have been falling for a long time. Big time Hollywood stars can’t open a film theatrically anymore…nobody cares about the new Jennifer Aniston or Julia Roberts or even Tom Cruise movie. Why? The studios have driven the cost of a theatrical viewing to insane levels. The only money a theater owner gets is concessions (pretty much).

      I think your concerns for the jobs that will be lost in the movie industry are noble …nobody wants to see people lose jobs. But I would assume redbox has hired a LOT LOT LOT of people in the past year and whenever I go to job sites, I see a lot of redbox jobs out there looking to be filled. Maybe some of those people currently in the industry need to start looking at another part of the industry to be employed in. Why should the movie industry be any different? I watched my Mom lose her job at a grocery store bakery because they had to start cutting costs. Why? Because people demanded lower prices and that’s just good old competition. Is her job any less important than the poor key grip you pine for? I am sure everyone here can relate a story like that. That’s why you have a hard time finding sympathy taking that route, and therefore they don’t hear what you’re saying.

      You keep fighting Joey….you may win. I hope you don’t…and even if you don’t win because it wont be long before a lot of the people cheering redbox here will be hating them later.

  13. Visitor [Join Now]
    Todd [visitor]
    I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

    Joey I think you make alot of valid points. Even in this new topic it’s pretty obvious which side Micheals on. He only sees the answers as the studios bending to redbox. I think redbox is about to hit the wall.

  14. Member [Join Now]
    starfire008

    Whether redbox has a future or not, the barn door is open. People will never go back to paying $4.50 for renting a dvd from companies like blockbuster. Those prices are a relic of the past. There are too many other options. Nobody I know rents from blockbuster anymore. Personally, if there was blockbuster or nothing, I would take nothing.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Jeoy [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      The peoples exhibit #2
      The perceived value has been decimated by redbox as starfire008 points out.
      Once something has been devalued it is almost impossible to get that value back. Destroying and Devaluing the industry!!!!!!!!!

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        acdahl [visitor]

        Not destroying and devaluing. It is a righting of an inflated price. The high rental cost goes back to the days of the Video Cassette, when the new release cost was $100 for the first 60-90 days or more. Once the movie industry dropped the price of the new release, that price ceased to be relevant. It just took time for the economics to catch up.

        And, by the way, I do believe it was the movie industry itself that made that change, not Redbox. So, in essence, the movie industry did this to themselves.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          Ok at which point do we bottom out? We are allready down to a pricepoint of under $20 At which point does the Industry stop being able to support itself?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            acdahl [visitor]

            The market will decide that. And the industry will continue. Change is inevitable. The ones that don’t adapt will wither. the ones that figure out how to be profitable will continue to succeed.

            I don’t claim to have a solution. If I did, I would be making millions as a movie mogul , (although not offering leading actors $20M for a phoned in performance would be one way to cut costs). But it makes no sense to fight change. Any company that cannot change with the industry will die. Recent history is ripe with examples. Look at the malls of today. Most are shells of their glory days. How many computer manufacturers have gone out of business? Circuit City folded. Need I mention web startups with lax business plans? While companies like Apple, Dell and Walmart (although I hate to admit it) adapted and flourished.

            And let’s not forget that Netflix, as was already mentioned, actually offers a lower price point than redbox, if it fully utilized, especially if you use their streaming capabilities. (The ROKU player rocks, by the way).

            The movie industry should not give up, but they really need to think outside the box to come up with a solution. It’s pretty obvious that some studios are for Redbox and some aren’t. We saw similar divisions during the HD-BluRay war.

            Movies won’t die and movie companies won’t die. And even though the quality of today doesn’t compare to that of the 50s, good movies will still be produced.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            All good points. Allthough I see netflixs in a diferent light than Red box because the core of it’s business is over 70% catalog titles.

            But you are right the market will decide what the price points are but don’t think the studios who own the content don’t have some say in the matter as well. I don’t believe they will leave their fate up to Red box or any other kiosk I believe they will protect the value of it’s content.

      • Administrator
        Michael [administrator]

        Let me ask you a question: Do you think Blockbuster has anything to do with this “destroying and devaluing of the industry” you speak of?

        Now, before you answer, consider this. A few years ago Blockbuster decided it wanted to try and compete with Netflix. So, they introduced their “by mail” service to do just that. They used lower prices to get some of Netflix’s market share. But that is not even the worst offense!

        Not only did Blockbuster lower the price, they created this new service called “Total Access”. Now, not only did they lower the price, but they allowed unlimited in-store trades. This doubled the amount of movies available to their users at any given time, thus further “devaluing” the price of movies.

        And, to top it all off, what kind of titles do you think people rented when they went in to make their trades? What, “catalog titles” you say? No, of course you didn’t. They traded for new releases. And how much did they pay for those “new releases” you ask? Nothing, you say? What, they gave away new releases for FREE!?

        LOOK EVERYONE – Blockbuster is “devaluing and destroying” the industry by giving away NEW RELEASES FOR FREE!

        Oh, but good old Blockbuster – always looking out for the “little guy” – decided to raise the price of their Total Access service and stop giving unlimited trades, you know, so they wouldn’t devalue the industry any further. Such martyrs they are for sacrificing their profits for the greater good.

        Oh, is that not what happened? Right… they stopped offering the service because they couldn’t afford it, not due to their benevolent love for all mankind. Their overhead was too high, so they made a business decision that would increase their profits and keep them in business.

        Is Redbox a business? Can they actually serve the consumer AND make a profit at the same time?

        Is their overhead less? Absolutely. Is their distribution channel more efficient? Definitely. So, they are taking advantage of technology, and passing some savings on to the consumer. Smart business, if you ask me.

        Oh, and now who is trying to copy them, just like they tried to do Netflix so many years ago? Right, good ole Blockbuster, always late to the party.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          Good points….this from mint.com— http://www.mint.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/MINT-MOVIES4.png

          Alls I can add to this is that at Blockbusters dollars spent per purchase is $15.50.
          Netflicks $14.50
          Movie Gallery $13.50
          Red Box $3

          Do you see a descrepency here?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            rumblefish [visitor]

            I seem to recall a time when Blockbuster REALLY devalued the dvd. GUARANTEED IN STOCK. No Longer did someone have to HOPE to get the hot new movie…this treasured piece of gold for which they’d pay a premium to be in that great group.

            People
            Now it was as common as finding a loaf of bread on the shelf at the grocery store. I know it’s leveled out since then but doing that took a HUGE advantage away from studios and retailers.

          • Administrator
            Michael [administrator]

            Yea, Joey, and you and I both know this is an apples and oranges comparison. This study is based on money spent per transaction, not money spent per user.

            In addition, it seems that the $15.50 you speak of from Blockbuster includes some things that Redbox does even compete in. Things like food and candy, and even more importantly, used DVDs. (yes, I know Redbox sells used DVDs at some kiosks, too, but nowhere even close to the numbers Blockbuster is doing.) I can only assume Movie Gallery is the same.

            Netflix is different, too. Obviously their average transaction is higher because they only sell monthly memberships. At the “cost per movie” level, there are many cases where they are less than Redbox, especially on the “price per day” numbers. This is most obvious on their 1-at-a-time plan for $10 per month. Last I checked, $10 for 30 days is 33 cents per day. Granted, some of the is mailing time, but even if we say 2/3 is mailing time, that comes out to the amazing price of $1 per day.

            Of course, you are over looking the fact that users have more transactions with Redbox. So, people are renting more movies, and spending more money. It is very likely that on movie rentals alone the average transaction at Blockbuster is about $7. If we take into account that Redbox users have 2-3 times as many transactions, then we see the price at Redbox go up to $6-9.

            When you look at it that way, things don’t look so different after all, do they?

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          TexasRebel [visitor]
          I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          Having to pay a monthly fee to get extra movies isn’t free that Is why I love redbox. I always get the freebies and only the freebies.

          Redbox Rocks, keep em coming.

  15. Visitor [Join Now]
    acdahl [visitor]

    Joey,

    I find one point you make extremely hard to believe.

    “The devaluing of this industry by red box is great for customers right now because they get to rent cheaper movies. But the affects of this go along ways….75% of films budget go to support below the line workers that don’t drive ferraris they are just working Joe’s like me or you.”

    So, you are trying to tell me that 75% of that budget went to the average joe? While I don’t know the exact salary he made for this movie, but he earned roughly $25 M for his last movie. Let’s say he took a pay cut and only earned $20 M. That is already 25% of the budget gone. Then you have the salaries of others (Director, costars, etc.) and the cost for the physical film, equipment rental, location rental, explosions, props, costumes, etc. I would estimate that it is closer to 25% and perhaps much less that goes to the average joes.

    I would be interested in seeing where your numbers come from, or if you make them up as you go.

    You also state that the quality of the product in the music industry has faltered since the emergence of digitally available music. That is crazy talk. I think the opposite is actually true. The artists actually need to stand out more now, because of the emergence of affordable recording capabilities, so they produce better music. I believe the same would happen in the movie industry.

    The fact is, this country’s economy is based on supply and demand. there is demand for cheaper movies or entertainment. Redbox and Netflix have brilliantly addressed this. They haven’t devalued anything, they simply offer the same product at a reduced rate, because they have kept their overhead low. That is smart business and if the movie studios don’t learn quick, they will fail. The customer is a fickle animal. Piss us off too much with overcharging and bad quality and we will eventually refuse to buy the product anymore.

    My 2 cents, anyway.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      TexasRebel [visitor]
      I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      Correct on all accounts except the Music of Today SUCKS!!!

      Haven’t paid for music since 1989 and I’ll be damned to spend $100 for a concert ticket.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED IS the below the line worker……. the cost for the physical film, equipment rental, location rental, explosions, props, costumes, etc……. there are people behind these trying to make a living and just because 1 actor makes 25M on a film don’t forget about the other 100’s of films where they don’t. The # I specified is an Average because it’s not true for the one film you mention does not mean it’s not true for an Industry.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        acdahl [visitor]

        The below the line worked may blow the things up, but he doesn’t buy the raw material. He doesn’t create the wood or metal for the structures. He certainly doesn’t reap the rental costs of locations, he doesn’t create the film. Someone does, but it is not someone that directly earns money from the movie being filmed.

        Typically, the bigger budgets have the bigger stars and the bigger directors, which take a bigger piece of the original pie. The price of everything else is pretty standard, depending on genre. And the budget of the movie is liewise reflected. I still hold to my assertion that the majority of the budget goes to the actor and directors. Maybe40-60% on smaller budget films.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          The excact average # is 63.75% of a films budget is for crew cost.
          15% of a film is above the line talent directors and A list actors

          Believe what you want these are the #’s

  16. Member [Join Now]
    alans613

    Joey, do you work for Blockbuster? Hollywood Video? Family Video? Obviously if you’re 110% against Redbox, and you don’t work for the studios as Michael has mentioned, it’s not that hard to put 1 and 1 together dude. Get over yourself…BB and the brick and mortar video stores are the past, RB is the future. As someone else on here said earlier, don’t hate the player, hate the game!

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      The studios not supporting them 60% of them don’t share your opinion. And the ones who do have signed one sided deals favorable to yes you guessed it the studios…. Red box’s future very much in question

  17. Member [Join Now]
    Mikey K [mikey-k]

    The high price rentals made sense back in the days of VHS due to the cost of the tapes. Many were in the range of $100.00. Rental giants like Blockbuster and Hollywood Video kept the rental prices high after the arrival of the DVD format. I was an early adopter of DVD and I really bothered me the rental prices stayed so high, not only for new releases, but for catalog movies as well. A rental charge of 1/4 the value of buying a new DVD, or 1/2 of a used DVD is absurd.

    I stayed away from the giants from day one and rented DVDs for $1 from Albertsons grocery store for many years. I eventually started renting from Hollywood when they started a monthly all you can rent special (3 out at a time) until the cost of gasoline and time became too great. I have been with Netflix for the last 3-4 years and have no desire what so ever to rent from a store ever again. I started using Redbox for new releases early this year, because it’s a low cost convenience and I can walk to 4 different boxes.

    I think there are many reasons the studios are currently having problems. Theater prices are outrages and I stopped going except for one film a year. The Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war soured a lot of people including myself. I think once the new Blu-ray format was set, many people stopped buying standard DVDs anticipating their eventual purchase of a Blu-ray player. The same thing happened with VHS when DVD started to take hold.

    Of coarse, the recession is probably a major driver of renting instead of buying. It never made sense to me to see people buy 1-2 new release DVDs every Tuesday that they have never seen before. My thought was rent first and only buy the ones you really want to add to your collection. New DVDs are like new automobiles: They lose a lot of the value once you drive them off the lot. Just look how quickly a new release used DVD’s value plummets after the first week of release. You can buy the DVD used online for less than half the new price.

    • Member [Join Now]
      slidecage

      i remember those days of 100.00 buck VCR tapes… My cousins father stepped on 1 they were renting …. Said it was just a stupid movie how much could it cost 20 bucks…. he almost #$#$#$# his pants when the rental store said he owed them 120 bucks…. I dont think he ever paid and never went back…

      Why do they care if someone pays 1.00 or 3.00 to rent a movie when you can go out and buy softwere to burn the movie and watch it 1000x more for free…. I know years ago

      Best buy sold this box that override the protection on DVDS and you could copy any and all dvds (even disney)

      back then my grandfather did not have a dvd player so they would go rent the new dvds and copy them to VHS so he could watch them…

      now im not saying that is the right thing to do BUT there is other problmes then someone paying 1.00 compair to 3.00

      HERES SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT

      he can go to blockbuster and rent the movie for 4.00 copy the movie 10 times and give them to 10 people in his family

      MONEY THE MOVIE Made 4.00

      or keep redbox at 1.00 have the 11 people go out and rent the movie

      MONEY THEY MOVIE made 11.00

      so at 1.00 the movie made almost 300x more then if they rented it for 4.00

      whats that …. my uncle just called and said someone is knocking on his door..

      RUN UNCLE RUN ITS THE COPS LOL

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Joey [visitor]
        I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        This issue has nothing to do with what your speaking about. The bottom line is Redbox with $1 a day rentals is dragging down the sell-thru side of the business

        • Administrator
          Michael [administrator]

          The sell-through side of the business is destined to trend downward. What is the purpose of owning a movie, anyway, if you only watch it once, maybe twice?

          Music and movies differ in this way, with music having a higher useful life and value to the average consumer. You may say that movies cost more to make (obviously), but how many more times does a person listen to their favorite song vs. watch their favorite movie?

          While I do not doubt Redbox is a contributor to sell-through decline in recent days and at a slightly faster pace, they are certainly not the cause. If not Redbox, it would be someone else. Netflix has already done it, and the economy has been a major contributor as well.

          Time will tell what happens here, but I put my money on the studios having to compromise a lot more than Redbox, as they realize they will need to cooperate more with rentals, and find a way to get more people to the theaters (already happening with 3D).

          The future of entertainment is bright, with more options than ever for consumers. As long as the consumer wins, the studios can win, too.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            You have to admit it sure is getting interesting out there. Especially with everything going on in the 4th quarter.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            We are going to the movie theater more this year since starting to rent movies from Redbox. Once in a blue moon we may buy a movie. Don’t buy very many since they would just sit in a box and we are just not interested in collecting movies. Those movie theater 3D movies are intriguing!

  18. Visitor [Join Now]
    rb [visitor]

    Forget “Leave Brittney Spears Alone!”, let me shout, “Leave Joey Alone!” That said, you’re not thinking smart Joey! You’re a struggling dad of 3 kids and you’re still renting a house instead of investing in a mortgage–a future for you and your kids! My advice: stop paying $20+ for so-so dvds like the “State of Play” dvd that you bought at Best Buy; rent for $1 from Redbox and start saving up those $20+ to invest in a house–or a vacation home! And if you’re going to spend $20+ to buy, at least buy time-tested Disney movies to watch and spend time with those 3 kids! Just sayin’…..

    • Member [Join Now]
      moviecrazy

      Good advice rb! I’ve tried to say before if everyone would just ignore Joey’s ignorant remarks maybe he would just go away. Sounds to me like he needs to worry more about his kids and less about the “devaluing of movies”!

    • Member [Join Now]
      moviecrazy

      Obviously Joey’s just starved for attention, why else would someone take on an entire site devoted to Redbox? I mean you would think after awhile he would just give up realizing it was a lost cause. All the while I’ll bet his kids would love to give him their affection and attention but he probably just ignores them…..sad, very sad.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Joey [visitor]
        I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        Did I steal one of your girlfriends at one time or something? Why are you so concerned with what I’m saying? If you don’t like it don’t read it. You know you can scroll right past it.

  19. Visitor [Join Now]
    Mike [visitor]

    Honestly I’d buy more dvds if the movie studios weren’t so greedy with the prices of buying it new (from $23 and $46 for tv shows). I never understood the logic of studio realizing people are bootlegging movies so let’s raise the prices of our product. By doing that you are just discouraging more people to buy your product. Blockbuster’s 4 dvds for $20 isn’t a bad deal. They might not be the newest titles but if they’re movies you want it’s worth it. And I said it before, pay the movie actors less money (the ones who make millions of dollars per film) and instead distribute some of it to other parts of the film industry instead of keep raising ticket and dvd prices to do that. I find it pathetic that actors and actresses who act roles make more money than a surgeon that saves lives or a scientist that finds cures for diseases.

  20. Member [Join Now]
    kduit

    Prior to RedBox pricing option, I rented only 15-20 movies a year. Only the ones I really wanted to see. Since RedBox has come to my area, I’ve rented around 100 movies a year. RedBox just allows many of us to experience the works of artists that we might never have been exposed to.

    On to another thought…

    It appears my area is being used as an experimental area for delayed release of movies. The movie shows up as available online, but when I arrived at the box, it says coming soon. Through a phone call, found out the area I’m in is undergoing some sort of experiment. Did not receive the details. Just an apology and free code for the confusion. It appears to be a four week delay from the original street date. Maybe Michael can dig deeper into what’s up with this test???

    Anyone else noticed this, or are apart of this “test”?

    Michael, put on your interview hat and let me know if you can find anything more about this.

    Thanks.

    • Administrator
      Michael [administrator]

      That is indeed very interesting, and is definitely the first I have heard about this. I suppose it makes sense for Redbox to test this out and see what the reaction is like. However, testing like this is somewhat invalid due to the new releases being listed online.

      Have you noticed at all what titles are exactly being tested? Is it only titles of certain studios, or all titles?

      Thanks for the heads up!

      • Member [Join Now]
        kduit

        so far Observe and Report, today may tell more. That one just happened to be one I had been looking for.

      • Member [Join Now]
        kduit

        Okay, checked in on the big one for the kids and found that Monsters vs Aliens was available.

        Maybe it has to do with which studio releases the movie? Warner Brothers was Observe and Report.

        All for now…. Thanks Michael for all you do on this site.

      • Member [Join Now]
        kduit

        I spoke too soon. Another movie I tried to snag at another location this morning was Scooby Doo the Mystery Begins. It shows up as available online, but when I got there, it shows as coming soon, 10/13/2009. And wouldn’t you know it, another Warner title.

        My youngest will be disappointed for now…

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          This is what I’ve been saying about wait until October gets here. Distribution, Availability, and Price are all up for debate.

          But I am curious as well if this is a test area you are in.
          What part of the country are you in and I can let you know if a test is being run there and what it details.

        • Member [Join Now]
          captmovie

          kduit will you wait until the movie can be rented for a 1$ or will you rent it sooner for more money? Will you buy the movie instead of renting the movie?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            TexasRebel [visitor]
            I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            You know what I’d do ;) Screw all of them and there greediness.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Great question?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Texas Rebel we allready know that you don’t pay for any of your movies.

            TexasRebel says:
            September 28, 2009 at 11:08 am
            As long as I can get all my rentals for free I say screw Joey and all his BS. Suck it studios!!!

            TexasRebel says:
            September 28, 2009 at 3:38 pm
            Correct on all accounts except the Music of Today SUCKS!!!

            Haven’t paid for music since 1989 and I’ll be damned to spend $100 for a concert ticket.

          • Member [Join Now]
            kduit

            I’ll either wait, check the small time one dollar rental box (the name escapes me), or forget about it. Too often in the past, by the time a movie came out for rental, I’d forgotten what the movie was that I had wanted to see. This could happen with the delay. When a movie is about to be released for sale, there is usually a huge ad blitz. This helps remind me about movies I’d possibly like to view, or maybe the kids would like to view.

            As for buying movies, I will no longer buy a movie without knowing for sure that I or someone in my family will like it. Been bit too many times by horrible movies advertised perfectly. Meaning the marketing people did their job of selling me on the need to purchase.

            I usually get my movies in the Omaha market. The RedBox rep was kind enough to explain that I was trying to rent from a test market area for some new process. Didn’t try to dig for more details as I had already been on the phone with her for over 20 minutes in the cold wind. (waa waa waa)

            So I was curious if anyone else had experienced this new delay…

            Also, Walmart is forcing RedBox to paint there red machines blue. Went into find the machine and found that it wasn’t in it’s prior location. When I did find the small rectangular red sign, I was shocked to see blue. I thought maybe they had blu-rays… nope, just the power of Walmart forcing others to change…

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            TexasRebel [visitor]
            I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            If you think I’m the minority….. hahahahahahaha

      • Member [Join Now]
        kduit

        today when passing by I was checking out a redbox machine to see if there was anything I wanted to see and noticed that xmen origins: wolverine was now in the coming soon status. I’ve already rented it, but wonder if Fox releases are going into the same test state as the Warner releases here in Omaha….

        Things are a changing, what will be RedBox’s next move…

  21. Member [Join Now]
    captmovie

    The “solution” is simple. Continue to expand the $1 a movie rental business with movie makers getting a cut. This is what Redbox is doing. In other words the movie makers make money off VOLUME rentals at a $1 a movie in the end making more then they would otherwise.

    • Administrator
      Michael [administrator]

      What!? Increase profits of both the studios and Redbox by extending the reach of movies even more? Blasphemy!

      Clearly, someone has to lose – everyone can’t win! How dare you make such claims that are good for everyone? You, my friend, are clearly out to destroy society as we know it.

      • Member [Join Now]
        captmovie

        LOL.. Such a novel concept. They should be paying me and you!

      • Member [Join Now]
        captmovie

        Funny thing Netflix says Redbox is not a direct competitor. Perhaps in some ways that is true for now. However, the reality is that streaming is certainly the future. If Netflix and Blockbuster had just released DVD’s available via streaming they are then direct competitor’s with Redbox and would take away some business right away from Redbox movie rentals even if Netflix and Blockbuster streaming service a slightly higher cost.

        • Member [Join Now]
          mamadulce

          Only thing is that – for me – watching a movie online on my computer screen is not a very comfortable setting. I don’t have a comfortable chair in my office and do not find this enjoyable. Have tried twice – with cable shows NetFlix offered – and never made it all the way through. I think that eventually they will have affordable television units that can easily receive the ‘streamed’ movies so that one can watch from the comfort of one’s living room. When this happens, Netflix and Blockbuster will be poised to take a big chunk of the DVD rental revenues. Such televisions apparently already exist – but I believe that they are a bit complicated and expensive. I do use Redbox – obviously why I’m on this site – but am often frustrated by some inefficiencies in the system (as today when the website is not functioning). Some of my issues: lack of selection in first run movies, long wait lines for returns (how about a separate return slot), malfunction and inefficiency of website and billing, and (this last one is my responsibility) how fast those $1/day fees really add up when you keep telling yourself that it’s only $1 a day so you find reasons to procrastinate returning the DVD. I’m sure that they figured this out when they first contemplated the price point of $1. And I would venture to guess that the majority of people end up keeping the movies for more than one day – and even up to 3 or 4 days and thus end up paying Blockbuster’s general price. This is why I have switched to only using NetFlix when I am absolutely sure that I can return the DVD the next day and when it is a top run movie. For variety, leisure in return, old classics, Indie & Foreign, trendy cable series, and overall enjoyment – I also have a Netflix membership. Netflix used to be very slow in shipping when I tried it a few years back but that has changed and now I receive DVD’s one day after they ship them out (and they get my returns in one day as well). I think that RedBox has it’s place – spur of the moment DVD desires while grocery shopping being one of the top ones. I don’t see them replacing Netflix or Blockbuster or hurting DVD sales at this point – they (RedBox) just don’t have the selection or quality required to do that.

          • Member [Join Now]
            mamadulce

            My bad ~ typo. Midway through when I said “I have switched to only using NetFlix when I am absoultely sure . . . ” I meant RedBox instead.

      • Member [Join Now]
        kduit

        Yes, I lose even when I win the right to rent $1 movies. I lose all that time spent watching movies! :-)

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Joey [visitor]
        I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        Way to skew this because I know that you know the studios wouldn’t be increasing profits. This would just furter cannabilize sell thru

        • Member [Join Now]
          captmovie

          So your a forum mind reader now?

          Claiming to know what someone else knows contrary to what a person has stated in an attempt to validate your argument is foolish.

        • Administrator
          Michael [administrator]

          Yes, they would increase profits BY cannibalizing sell-through.

          Seriously, would the studios rather SELL 100 DVDs, or rent 3,000? As long as fair revenue sharing was in place, the studios do better with rental than sales. Do the studios really care about selling movies or making money?

          I am not sure what you relationship is to the industry, but it seems you are a bit short-sighted on the real possibilities here. The studios have an opportunity to make more money than ever through rental. The smart ones are making deals, the others are just dragging their feet.

          In the end, consumers will win, because the competition is high enough that no single content-producer can control the pricing. For now, the consumers win through Redbox.

          That is the reality that you are not willing to see, Joey.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            To answer your question–Hell yes they would rather sell 100 DVD’s making $1500 on them rather then renting 3000 which they would make what 30% of the pie equals $1000.

            The $1 pie breaks down to pennies because I don’t think they would even get 30% I was being generous. Don’t forget that $1 gets split 3 ways because the location the box is at gets it’s cut as well.

          • Administrator
            Michael [administrator]

            I was being very conservative with my 3,000 number, BTW. I originally wrote 10,000. I think that is closer to the reality.

            Also, you really want to tell me that “studios” make $15 per DVD? You and I both know that is bull. More like $9 goes to the studio.

            It’s quite simple really. Look at the Apple App Store for a great example. What is the best selling price point for an app? 99 cents. Apps priced at 99 cents outsell similar apps at $1.99 by 600%. I know this from experience due to my Inside Redbox app, as well as the reports of others.

            Reduced prices increases reach exponentially. This is what is happening here, and doing something to try and stop it will be suicide for the studios.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            So are you saying that 10,000 Dvd rentals will only cost the studios 100 DVD sales? I think that’s a conservitive #

            And a studio makes 70% of the sell thru price. More than $9

            Anyways yes a cheaper price will reach further I get that. I’m just saying I don’t see the revenue lost on sell thru being made up by increased rentals at a cheaper price point.
            I guess we can agree to disagree and time will decide. I personally think this price point is going to hurt this industry more than help it.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            John Small [visitor]

            Michael, your numbers are really, really wrong here.

            I know you are passionate about Redbox and make money off them but you need to put some real thought into your business models because you just look like an amateur when you say things like this.

        • Member [Join Now]
          captmovie

          Do you think the downturn in the economy has anything to do with DVD sales being down and rentals being up?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            yes I do and half the debate out there is to determine how much. Which is why I think you find some studios dealing with them and some not. It is not in disbute that the $1 a day pricing is affecting this industry, how much I just don’t know because also into this is figured in the Blu-ray platform adaptation and the economy downturn.

            But I do think having Paramount actually getting the #’s from red box and comparing them to their own sell thru will tell this industry alot.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            Paramount’s latest deal with Redbox just one short sampling of an extremely competitive DVD movie rental market. BB on the way with DVD Kiosks that will compete directly with Redbox.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Big difference these kiosk will observe windows. But what people are missing I believe is that Blockbuster does not own these kiosk they are getting a 5% licensing fee to use their brand name. They will not actually run or maintain these machines NCR will.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            Then movie makers should make deals with Redbox. Less hands in the pie.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Smaller pie though

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            The Redbox pie is growing exponentially. Yes the movie makers can take their ingredients and go home but I doubt that will help the movie makers sell more ingredients particularly in a downturn economy.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            I think redbox does have a place in this industry just not as it is offering new releases at $1 a day rentals right away. I think they should protect the value more.

            I personally think redbox is growing way to fast building a house of cards that is going to collapse. They are growing with funding secured by showing increased #’s which is based on their growth. The #’s aren’t comming from a profit standpoint.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            I think most people will just wait out that ‘protecting the value’ game. Lets say Redbox makes available first release DVD’s 30 days later. People will simply have a 30 day queue. If there is a movie I really want to see now I may not wait for the DVD release anyway. I’m going to the movie theater!

            As for Redbox securing funding based on growth. That’s called venture capital. Sometimes the investors venture good sometimes not so much.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            I agree I think most people who frequent the redbox with codes and are attracted by the price point will just wait the 30 days. But I also see this keeping the value of packaged media up. I also believe even if a fraction of the people who aren’t willing to wait purchase the DVD at retail or rent it at a higher price point that everybody in this industry wins. The value of a DVD stays intact or at least is not brought down to an unsupportable level.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            The masses can be quite frugal. I think cheap mass volume movie rental is the real money maker catalyst. This will increase the customer base thus more people renting, going to the theater when they can or buying a movie on DVD they really like.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            I disagree when you flood the market wih cheap product. Instead of dollars you are left with pennies

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            China floods our markets every day with cheap product and they are left with bu-coo pennies. People load up their carts with all kinds of cheap junk they don’t need and wouldn’t purchase otherwise.

            The fact is that movies are for the masses not some esoteric group. Thus you make more by renting to more people. You might consider Redbox the Walmart of movie rental.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            I actually do consider them that. Yes wallmart has brought prices down on alot of products but at what cost? Entire communities have suffered, small business owners have suffered, quality of product has suffered, and yes our money has left small communities and is supporting chinas growth.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            Yes and what makes you think for the movie industry it will be any different? In some cases you can still buy the more expensive product not made in China but few people do. Take for example the automobile industry. Toyota now has production plants right here in the USA and has done extremely well while at least 2 of the big 3 US car manufacturers faltered. If the American movie industry can’t compete by renting cheaply to the masses then someone else will and don’t expect the government to bail out the movie industry!

            But as I said, I think by renting cheaply and to many more they will in turn make more money. Like China selling so much more stuff because it’s cheap.

            It’s not a question of if. The question is when! The American movie industry has a chance now like the American automobile industry had a chance decades ago and blew it.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            You act like the studios have no choice but to deal with redbox.
            I disagree, they are not bound to deal with them. And if they keep their price point up while not dealing with them redbox will have no choice but to raise it’s rates. Once the dust settles on all this people are still going to look for entertainment options whatever the cost. Even in a recession the entertainment does not take a significent hit because that is one thing consumers have been unwilling to go without even if it cost more than a $1.

            You cannot compare this industry to the auto Industry they are apples and oranges. But as far as someone asking the gov’t for bail out money I havn’t heard the entertainment industry ask for anything other than to have redbox stop devaluing the product they make.

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            I stated a few posts back (you must have a short memory) some movie makers can take their ingredients to the pie and go home thus not doing business with Redbox. People will continue to rent movies from Redbox, BB, Netflix, etc. There is no way for movie makers to avoid the fact movie rentals have dropped in price. Either the American movie industry adjusts or they will be replaced. That’s how business rolls.

            The point of the automobile business analogy is that competition changes. Either the a business adjusts or they go out of business.

            You harp on that Redbox is devaluing movies. If most people aren’t going to purchase or rent a movie for much more then a $1 then how is this devaluing a movie. It is the value! The customer ultimately decides the value not the movie industry.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      Sounds simple doesn’t it. One major flaw though……………..
      By getting revenue off of the red box $1 a day rentals that revenue is such a small fraction compared to how much the studios would lose in the cannibalization of the sell thru side of the business this would cause. In effect by supporting redbox they would be loosing more money on sell thru than they would gaining at red box.
      Just ask paramount come December

      • Member [Join Now]
        captmovie

        Wow, not only are you a forum mind reader but you can predict future paramount profits based on movie rental sales. Does your rudimentary prediction take into account any factors besides that cheap movie rentals will cannibalize DVD movie sales?

        As others have alluded ‘The cats out of the bag’. There is no going back. People have grown accustom to inexpensive movie rentals be it a Redbox, BB, Netflix, etc service. And people who really want to own a movie will still buy the movie. Perhaps with more people renting movies then more people may decide to buy a movie.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Joey [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          No actually I talk with studio reps at paramount.

          And as you say the cats out of the bag and there’s no going back….. Well then I would love to see the reaction coustomers have when redbox is forced to raise rates “going back” because of the increased cost on obtaining it’s titles

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            JohnJ [visitor]

            Joey you gave your opinion, stop beating a dead horse. Give us all a brake and some space to talk on RB.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Didn’t you see the name listed at the top of this article it was to Joey

          • Member [Join Now]
            captmovie

            Depending the price point the reaction I suspect will be that customers rent less movies. As the price goes up customer will continue to rent less and less. That is why I think the solution is to increase the volume of rentals and keep the price very low for the customer. Time will tell.

          • Member [Join Now]
            moviecrazy

            Just like I thought, you work for the movie studios! You just gave yourself away there bud! The cat’s out of the bag now huh?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            trust me moviecrazy I have forgotten more about the Entertainment Industry than you will ever know. But no I do not work for the studios but yes I do know hundreds of people who work in this industry. Which is why I think I have some first hand knowledge of the issues facing this industry.

            What is the basis for your knowledge? Is it solely that you use redbox codes and rent movies for $1? I didn’t think so…

            if Identity is so important why don’t you share with us who you are because it is obvious you have a vested interest in redbox that goes beyond rentals?

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            Joey [visitor]
            I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

            Just like I thought, you work for the Red Box! You just gave yourself away there bud! The cat’s out of the bag now huh?

          • Member [Join Now]
            moviecrazy

            How did I give myself away? Trust me, I do NOT work for Redbox…seriously I am just a frequent renter and I don’t want to see the price of rentals go up. That’s the ONLY reason I have to care about this whole debate thing. And as soon as YOU reveal who you are and what you do for a living I will reveal myself as well….deal? No, I didn’t think so because you don’t want to give yourself away and prove I was right about where you really work. From what you’ve said you must have at least used to work for the studios in some capacity and I find it hard to believe that you don’t still work there, seeing as strongly as YOU feel about this whole thing.

  22. Member [Join Now]
    alans613

    I’m guessing I figured out that Joey works for one of the brick and mortar video stores since he completely refused to answer whether or not he works for them(My money is on Blockbuster). BTW, within the past week one of my area Kroger stores added a RB kiosk outside their store, which now makes 12 kiosks in my immediate area, while the overpriced, bloated Blockbuster down the street is closing its doors. While I do feel bad for the people losing their jobs, I DON’T feel bad about one less BB location price-gouging its customers out of $5 for a one-night DVD rental. As I have said over and over, either change with the times or become part of the past. Your choice Joey AKA Mr. Blockbuster Video.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      JohnJ [visitor]

      Please no more Joey, right there are to sides of a story. To way things work in this world is a better product for a cheaper price. that is called competition, losers die,winners are the people that get business from us.

    • Member [Join Now]
      mamadulce

      Okay . . . just to bring some balance here. I have never heard of a Blockbuster charging $5 for a “one-night rental”. They do charge anywhere from $4 to $5 for a 2 day or a one week rental. But when you add the week’s grace period then you get anywhere from 9 days to 14 days total rental without penalty. After that point, (and you usually get about one more day grace) you are only charged a one time $1.25 restock fee. After you have kept the movie for a month, you might be liable for the full price of the movie – but even that is negotiable if you present the movie soon after the month is up.

      Our local Blockbuster has even been known to work with you if you have a medical or family emergency. On the other hand, RedBox has a statement on their website which states something like, ” . . . we’re all grown ups . . . “, in regards to what can be done if you misplace or lose a DVD. I am disabled and recently went through a moderate health crisis – which occured after I had already rented a DVD. Subsequently I could not find the DVD and feared that I was going to end up paying $25 for a DVD I maybe marginally even wanted to watch (the quality of movies offered by RedBox is inferior to that available elsewhere). Thankfully, I found the DVD within a couple of days – so only owed about $4 – for what I considered a grade ‘B’ movie.

      Blockbuster has also in the past offered deals far more competitive to the RedBox pricing – in particular if one had in mind watching a great deal of movies in a given time span. At one point, Blockbuster offered a $17.99/month Total Access deal whereby you could get unlimited ‘trade ins’ at the video store. When you brought in your 3 DVD’s (or however many you were through with), you picked out 3 from the store – then handed the 3 mail ones in and were charged nothing for them. In addition, the DVDs you returned were instantly and automatically entered as returned – so new ones were mailed out to you that same date. It was an unreal deal and I didn’t know how they could do it. I guess neither did Blockbuster ’cause they abandoned that deal after several months to a year. When I rejoined next the deal was unlimited DVD’s with 5 ‘free’ trade ins and trade ins after that cost you $1.99 per movie (and you still got the deal of automatic instant ‘return’ status on the DVDs you returned). Still . . . a very excellent deal.

      I think that both Netflix and Blockbuster are actually very competitive with RedBox when you consider the quality of movies offered and all of the special perks. I use all three venues – for different purposes. Right now, my very favorite overall is NetFlix, which has greatly improved their delivery (one day shipped in, one day shipped out). NetFlix has a more intelligent online system that seems to better understand my preferences (as opposed to Blockbuster). My one complaint with NetFlix is that they don’t clearly list all of the movies releasing each week. For that I recommend VideoEta (videoeta.com) – website on which you can research movies releasing each month (you can go either into the future or back in time).

      When I want a more extended period with lots of choices in both movie and cable series watching – I choose either Blockbuster or NetFlix, with my currrent preference being NetFlix. When I want spur of the moment, spontaneous movie watching and am willing to put up with a very limited selection – I choose RedBox.

      I do have some issues with inefficiency in RedBox – to the point that many times I have said I wouldn’t use the system again. One blatent example is when I was trying to reserve online, mid-order was told the movie was no longer available – then my credit was charged anyway. I just happened to find out when I checked my e-mail later in the day – but I don’t check my e-mail every day or more than once a day necessarily. I luckily was able to reach a person by phone – minor miracle since I have been on hold with them for as long as 15 to 20 minutes before! However, that person said they could not credit me and instead gave me a limited time ‘free’ code – never mind that I wasn’t sure that I was going to want to use it within the time period. Later I found out from another representative that the original person misspoke when they said that RedBox never issues refunds. By the way, where are all the periodic ‘free’ rentals I was supposed to receive by signing up for their newsletter. The only free rentals I have received was when RedBox made blatent errors such as the one mentioned here. Honestly, I have sometimes wondered if RedBox was being run by a couple of kids working out of their parent’s garage!

      But all my bemoaning aside, I still occassionally use RedBox – as I am today in renting “Management” (which I was lucky to get on the first release date). But I have to be very careful in how I use RedBox – make sure my life isn’t too busy to return right away – those $1/day fees can easily become $5 to $10 if just a few things get turned upside down in your life (and there is no negotiating with RedBox on this). Not to mention the gas money if forced to drive out to return the movie when you have no other reason to go out. I can feel a little more relaxed with Netflix (and Blockbuster) in this regard.

      As far as any of these companies putting the movie industry in peril . . . PLEASE!! I can’t believe this is even a serious topic of discussion – or that I should concern myself with making sure the movie industry has a future. I love movies, but I have enough responsibility in taking care of myself, putting a roof over my head, taking care of my disabled body, etc. Many actors receive salaries so high that if I could even have a tiny fraction of what they earn for one movie, I could fulfill most of my dreams (in terms of financial requirements). The studios equally make a great deal off of movie goers, DVDs, etc. If a movie studio is failing – they need to look to some of their highly paid (overpaid?) executives and intelligent minds to find ways to diversify. Don’t ask the public – hurting far worse financially – to pay more voluntarily!!

      P.S. Specicially to alans613 – I know that you are not expressing concern for the studios – I am just commenting here to the idea of the whole debate in general.

  23. Member [Join Now]
    Shemp Howard [shemp-howard]

    I am surprised no has mentioned municipal lending libraries. Books, audio CDs and yes DVD titles are available at no direct cost.

    Did Benjamin Franklin, who invented the public library, destroy the publishing industry? He was a printer by trade!

    • Member [Join Now]
      captmovie

      Very true. I can remember years ago listening to a record album that interested me that a public library had available. I bought the album!

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      TexasRebel [visitor]
      I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      Hey now. I might be mister cheap here and get around things.

      Taxes, however, are not things I cannot get around.

      Where do you think they get money to buy those movies?

      Library “Stuff” is not Free!!!

      Plus Redbox has more than a couple of copies for me to get and for Free.

      Redbox is where it is at. Woooooooooooooooo.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        TexasRebel [visitor]
        I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        oooppps, “Can” not “Cannot”.

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          TexasRebel [visitor]
          I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          buddy is messing with me.

          I “Cannot” get around taxes!!!!

          The libraries should use tax payer money on computers and books. There is no longer a need to waste money on dvds. Plenty of Redboxes out there to rent for free.

    • Member [Join Now]
      mamadulce

      My local library – just as Redbox does – charges a daily fee for every day beyond the return date. In terms of the library, it is $1.50 per day per video. Believe me that adds up very quickly. Maybe that is how they pay for the videos in the first place. RedBox claims no late fee, but will charge you $1 per day – up to $25 – for each day late. No excuses – even medical emergencies – apply. This is really the tricky part about RedBox. Believe me they are making money – they’re not in this because they are entertainment ‘good samaritans’.

      I have talked to many people – standing in the RedBox line – and it is tricky to get the DVD back in one day. Redbox counts on this. If you know for sure that you will return the DVD in one or two days – and you’re lucky enough to actually find a top rated movie – then go with RedBox. If you suspect you might be delayed, then you may end up spending $4 to $5 for a movie you might never have rented at that rate.

      For a long time I fell in to the ‘free’ (or inexpensive) aspect of it – with both RedBox and my local library. In reality, both venues – at least here locally – offer a sprinkling of top rated movies and a slew of more B movies. And . . . they both charge you heavily – and daily – for returning items late. With either Blockbuster or Netflix you are not charged daily for being late and they both offer a very varied selection – of classic movies new and old and high rated cable television series.

      I admit the free aspect is very tempting – especially with the promo codes (I have two DVD’s right now obtained with codes). The tricky part is getting the movies back in time. If your life is such that this is not a problem – wonderful, go for it! Otherwise, be cautious and do the math. If you are chronically returning RedBox DVD’s one, two, or three days late – your are paying top dollar for lower rated movies and poor selection. I speak from my own experience.

      RedBox has a place but it is not the greatest new invention! It’s just one more venue with a little 21st century techno/marketing twist. DVD’s rented in a soda machine style device. Who would have thunk it?

  24. Member [Join Now]
    robertm

    In short ,,will I pay $5 from BB for one night or $1 from RB for one night of movie rental if I made more than the average income I would not care where I got my rental ,,But RB cares about the people that can’t make it with the BB prices….Thx RB & Mr.M

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Tony [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      Redbox only cares about complete market saturation don’t deceive yourself that once this is achieved that the rates will be gradually raised once again

  25. Member [Join Now]
    Schnarr [schnarr]

    I don’t understand something…….. What’s the difference what the character Joey says, or what “everyone” answers??? Everyone’s entitled to an opinion! You don’t have to agree with one’s opinion, but no one has the ‘right’ to tell someone else ‘he’ or ‘she’ is wrong because of ‘their’ opinion. And I don’t understand why Michael is taking so much of this to heart!! Michael, you say you are not affilliated with Redbox, so why do you feel you have to defend Redbox??
    Joey has never cursed, or I have never seen where he has written any comments that uses obscenity. I’ve seen where other ‘low lifes’ have used obscenity.
    Joey can write how he feels. It’s a free country, or have we lost that “write or right” to say or write how we feel.
    “I” am very pleased with Redbox. I used to rent a few movies every week before I found “inside Redbox”, and enjoy the promo codes.
    I read what everyone writes. I get a kick out of people’s comments. Very seldom do I answer.

    • Member [Join Now]
      captmovie

      Right everyone is entitled to an opinion even when that opinion is telling someone else they are wrong.

      If you read the posts then you would know that Michael said he has no particular allegiance to renting from Redbox.

      People on both sides of the argument have points that can be made. It’s called a discussion or debate.

      BTW freedom of speech is a God given right. It can not be lost.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Sean [visitor]

      Yes, Joey can write what he feels…and does. Nobody took away Joeys right to speak here. Michael runs this site, if he wanted to he could ban Joey and not let him talk. You’re correct, people have the right to state their opinions. Just as Michael has the right to respond to them. He turned it into it’s own article because it was so long. Joey says a lot of stuff and makes a lot of points…maybe it just took this much to respond to all of it.

  26. Visitor [Join Now]
    Maxwell_Taylor [visitor]

    Ok . here’s the long and short of the entire industry. MONEY. production companies have like every company in the free world , done their very best to bring down cost for them selves and still produce the products that they make their money on . but like the tin foil industry the product is getting thinner and thinner. During a normal cycle in the 1980’s there were more “blockbuster ” movie’s released more often
    Many production companies have cut back and found ways to produce the same product for less. like re-writing older scripts , instead of paying a writer for original content
    The Redbox debate is just an extension of these Companies trying to get more MONEY, for the products they produce. being able to control the cost of the products they produce is one way they can increase their profits and not have to invest in a new movie that people would to pay to own and not just rent to see once.
    this debate has roots in the demise of the VHS cassette. the Production companies complained that content was being copied from TV and thereby killing the revenue stream of possible sales of series sets .
    enter the DVD. ( which until recently ) was a protected format that would not allow customer recording in true digital format from TV sources. TV series box sets sales sky-rocketed between 2001 and 2009. and I am suprised that the digital broadcast does not include an ” record blocker ”
    Production companies are trying to hold on to an outdated means of making money for the product that they sell. ( just like the record companies ) they need to find new ways of making money that THEY can control because THEY own .
    not try to control rental prices from independent companies . playing within the frame work the production and distribution companies originally developed.

  27. Visitor [Join Now]
    Tim [visitor]

    It’s really simple: before Redbox, I wasn’t renting. Now I do. You can have some of my money or none of it. Take your pick. :-)

    The reason why DVD sales have slowed is because of the recession. People look at where they are wasting money and realize that buying all those DVDs was stupid. Most aren’t watched more than once or twice. Most people now have DVRs and can record and watch movies that show up free on TV, easily skipping past commercials. I would bet that 95% of households that have more than 25 DVDs have at least one that’s never been opened. That’s all wasted money and when money is tight, it’s an easy place to cut expenses.

    I stopped buying DVDs a couple of years ago because I saw it was money not well spent. The $1 rentals at Redbox means that I rent a few times a month on average verses about once every five years (my average over the past 10 years) otherwise. The math should be easy for a second grader: $3 a month, or $4 every 5 years.

  28. Visitor [Join Now]
    JB [visitor]

    I used to rent movies from “family friendly” stores that edited out all unnecessary violence, offensive language, and sex to respect Christian values. It did not change the story, most the time it is pretty seamless. It made it so people can relax and enjoy a film. It was very popular, for it served a demand that was not being met, and such services multiplied. It was a revenue source for movie companies, for I would not watch, rent, or buy the movies otherwise, and there were many who shared adherence to high standards. The high standards that were respected in the production of entertainment for our parent’s generation.

    Unfortunately, movie producers took on these mom & pop stores, sued them, and put them out of business because they wanted their agenda intact. They were not interested in the gain of income. Many wrote and asked them to allow the editing. Ironically, they have to do the same kind of editing to air it on tv, and they comply there!

    There is one company that managed to fight for the right to edit out such unneccesary controversial content, and won, ClearPlay. You can download the edited movie version into their DVD player and enjoy the movie.

    With the prices of Redbox, and the filters provided by Clearplay, we now watch more movies than before. Thank you for the service, and I hope you continue to fight the good fight!

  29. Visitor [Join Now]
    John Small [visitor]

    What Michael clearly fails to understand is that Redbox does NOT play on a level playing field. If Redbox wants to pay the same price for their product as everyone else, then the studios will agree. But they do not and so the studios have stepped in.

    Now some have decided to get into bed with Redbox because Redbox will give them more market share than they deserve. Good for them.

    The real studios though are not going to let Redbox circumvent the system.

    So it will either be pay full price for your product Redbox, or raise your price, or wait 30 days to buy direct.

    The next quarter will show that Redbox is pretty much done now unless they adapt and submit to the studios demands.

    • Administrator
      Michael [administrator]

      What do you keep talking about here, John? The 3 studios that are trying to “step in” aren’t saying that Redbox isn’t paying enough for their DVDs, they are saying that they are renting them for too cheap, too early.

      My understanding is that Redbox generally gets their DVDs from wholesalers like VPD and Ingram. This is clearly laid out in the lawsuits. I am feeling pretty comfortable in saying this is the same place Netflix and others source their DVDs from as well. That is why these companies are in business, to be the middle man between studios and retailers.

      So, how is Redbox not paying the same as everyone else? Sure, they haven’t (until now) had revshare agreements, but that has nothing to do with the “level playing field” you are talking about.

      And, Redbox certainly does choose to buy Universal releases and stock them. Perhaps not ALL releases, but certainly all of the major ones.

      It sounds to me like you are the one with some sort of agenda here. I just report on the news and give my opinion – if Redbox fails, something else will rise in its place. Either way, there will still be something to talk about. To me, it is all the same.

      Do I like Redbox? Sure I do. I think it is a great business model and a great deal for consumers. But, as I have mentioned before, I use Netflix a lot more than Redbox, mostly because of blu-ray titles.

      And, there is a news story coming out today that looks to expose the studios argument against Redbox even more. The studios have made their own bed, and now are looking for someone else to sleep in it. It’s time for them to take responsibility for their own actions, I say.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        John Small [visitor]

        The wholesalers had set up special deals that allowed Redbox to send back most of their used product to the wholesalers after 30 days and pay a total cost of between $5 and $7 per DVD.

        The wholesalers then flooded the PVP market with Redbox titles, reducing the value of New DVDs yet again.

        The studios against Redbox have stepped in and told the wholesalers to cease and desist this practice, especially since they were only offering it to Redbox. If the wholesalers refused, they would not be able to sell the studio’s product anymore.

        The studios have the right to limit who they allow to wholesale their product. This has been done many times over the last 20 years.

        Redbox was making a miniscule profit when they had this deal in place. If they had to pay full cost of product (an additional $5-$10 per disc) they would be bankrupt in months.

        Look up the facts Michael. I know you are not a business person but there is a real reason that the studios do not like the Redbox business model and it isn’t because it works.

        • Administrator
          Michael [administrator]

          There is a bit of a difference between paying a different price and having a buyback agreement.

          I know how the Redbox agreement works. I actually discussed with them the idea of me selling some of their older inventory on this website. I know how much the “buyback” price is, and I know what dates they start selling off certain titles, etc…

          With that said, your “full cost” price of an additional $5-$10 per disc is off by quite a bit. It does sound like you have some knowledge of the industry, but claiming you know exactly how much Redbox is paying for their discs is irresponsible.

          In any case, you are welcome to believe what you like, and eventually we will all see what goes down. Even if the studios win some battles during all of this, they know eventually they lose the war with this strategy. A new strategy is needed, and some are already figuring that out.

          BTW, I am not sure how your “I know you are not a business person” fits in here, but it is far from the truth. If you want to have civil discussion, you are welcome here. But, if you want to disrespect someone, I suggest you find another site to do it on.

          • Visitor [Join Now]
            John Small [visitor]

            Sorry Michael.

            I only said that it was obvious because you have made multiple comments in regards to the entertainment industry that are ridiculously off the mark.

            If you had a business background you would know this and not make comments that expose your ignorance.

            It was not meant to be insulting. Just pointing out a simple fact.

            As for my price being off by “quite a bit”. You know that isn’t true. There isn’t that much room for “quite a bit”.

            But go ahead. If you have “inside knowledge” feel free to share. I know what I have heard from people on the inside as well but if you wish to provide a more “official” number, feel free to do so.

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        Jim [visitor]

        And, there is a news story coming out today that looks to expose the studios argument against Redbox even more. The studios have made their own bed, and now are looking for someone else to sleep in it. It’s time for them to take responsibility for their own actions, I say.

        WHAT NEWS STORY ?????????????????????????

  30. Visitor [Join Now]
    Manny [visitor]

    if movie studios want to block innovation… just stop making dvds! make us… better yet.. dare us to go to the movies to have to see a film at those expensive rates. lets see if the public doesn’t backlash the movie studios… studios should of gotten rid of the VHS to begin with if they wanted a monopoly. so long for capitalism and corporate competition to benefit the consumer..

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      John Small [visitor]

      Redbox is no innovation. If you want cheap/free movies, go to your local library. The studios aren’t blocking them.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      What innovation are you talking about? Kiosk have been around since the 90’s. The only innovation here is cut throat pricing trying to gain market share.

  31. Member [Join Now]
    SHAWNEE SHADOW [shawnee-shadow]

    CONSIDER THE SOURCE WITH THESE KIDS. THEY” HAVE THEIR EYEBALLS WRAPPED AROUND THEIR “A–HOLES , & HAVE A PRETTY SH-TTY OUTLOOK ON LIFE “. LET’S JUST FORGET ABOUT WHAT THIS IDGIT SAYS AND CONTINUE ON WITH OUR CURRICULUM AS USUAL . GO BACK UNDER THE ROCK YOU JUST COME OUT OF JOEY & GROW UP ,WHEN U R MATURE ENOUGH TO COMMENT WITH THE ADULTS. NEXT SUBJECT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

  32. Visitor [Join Now]
    TexasRebel [visitor]

    Once again Library Movies are not Free. Urge your local Congressman to stop using Tax Payer money to purchase new movies when we all can get copies from Redbox for free.

    Libraries no longer need to use My Money to get new stuff. Keep your current stock of movies and give codes to your neighborhood Redbox for the new stuff!!!

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      JB [visitor]

      many people donate the movies….

      • Visitor [Join Now]
        taxman [visitor]
        I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

        I’m pretty sure they aren’t donating day and date movies though.

        They don’t need to spend $100’s a week to supply the newest movies.

        If they can get by with donations strictly GREAT!!!

        Quit wasting tax payer money though.

  33. Member [Join Now]
    alans613

    My area library loans out DVDs for 7 days at a time, with the option, if no requests for the item are made, to renew it for two more weeks. If you can’t watch a DVD in 7 days, then why did you borrow it to start with? If you don’t have time to watch it then return it and request it again at a later time. No dollars spent, plain and simple. Paying late fees at the library is just plain ludicrous, especially if you end up paying $1.50 per day as stated above.
    Also, as someone said previously, it’s not that I don’t care about the studios, it’s just that I feel when it comes to DVD sales and rentals the studios get greedy after price-gouging the consumer out of $10-$15 per ticket at the theater then want us to pay $4-$5 per rental. Also, someone mentioned previously that there is “no way” BB charges $5 per night for a DVD rental, but yes it is very much true. Last year I rented WWE WrestleMania 24 and paid $4.99 plus tax for ONE NIGHT. My wife found out and about killed me for paying that much for it!
    Also, think of the customers that RB is drawing in that never rented DVDs before at the grocery stores that the kiosks are located at. RB is located inside many one-stop grocery outlets such as Walmart, Kroger, Meijer, etc. and it saves many from making another stop at Pricebuster for DVD rentals. That impulse rental generates revenue for RB and creates new customers.

  34. Member [Join Now]
    alans613

    Joey, why not hate Netflix like you hate Redbox? I rent 12+ DVDs a month from them @ $8.99 a month. I guess every rental company “devalues” DVD rentals if they don’t charge $5 per rental.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      Joey [visitor]
      I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      That’s simple Netflix uses catalog as a majority of their business. It accounts for over 70% of it. Also an average transaction at Netflix is $14.50 keeping the value in packaged media up or at least not devaluing it. Don’t get me wrong I don’t just think it’s redbox that’s destroying the Entertainment industry. I just think they are the greatest contributing factor.

  35. Visitor [Join Now]
    Ben [visitor]

    I have a different take on the whole debate. . . Joey doesn’t believe that the value of movies has gone down (denies that “bring it on” #64 is a bad idea) and Redbox has spearheaded the “devaluation.” The thing about quality is if I really want a “theater” experience, I will go see Hugh Jackman and Daniel Craig on stage where the experience is different on any given night. If I want to watch “wolverine” whip out his claws, or “Bond” drop witty one liners and hook up with a hottie, I’ll rent the movie for as little as I possibly can (free if possible).

    I believe I get what I pay for. I want a nice night out with my wife to enjoy a public performance, so I’ll see a “live” stage show. If I decide not to hassle with crowds, have my eardrums blown out, go home with a headache, and have a bad nights sleep, I’ll rent a movie. In renting the movie, I will pay as little as I can (either to redbox or hollywood video/blockbuster) and return it when I am done. The quality is in the time spent with others, and if I can get the rental for less, I can spend more on dinner with my wife (usually watching the movie after the kids are in bed).

    Pretending that redbox is the mafia hitman and the studios are “suffering” is like saying that low income wage earners are killing the federal government because they don’t pay the same dollar amount in taxes as a high income wage earner.

    oh, and just to let you know, because I have kids and can’t afford to see the movie in the theater or pay the $5 rental fee for every movie I watch just encourages me to be selective in what I do see. I won’t spend my money on “Bring it on: your only as good as your last day in High school,” I’ll spend it on something that is original, witty, interesting, exciting, and good. If I don’t see it in the theater, rent it for $5 or buy the DVD, I’ll just wait for saturday afternoon because every movie ends up there at some point (the bad ones usually more often, which is why I leave the tv off most of the time at that point)

    redbox provides a service for which they pay the price of the DVD/BluRay disk. Just because you don’t like their business model doesn’t mean that it is bad. MacDonalds food tastes like crap to me, but they have a killer business model that has kept them in the money through the years. that’s just how things are, try buying stock in redbox and watch your money grow instead of worrying about the perceived shrinking of the studios pocketbook (unless it really is your wallet).

    thanks and I’ll take your answer off the air.

    • Visitor [Join Now]
      TexasRebel [visitor]
      I work with VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

      I actually think that Movies are no different than years past. I think people are always complaining about sequels and rehashes and overall bad content, yet they still keep breaking Box Office records. I think the general public is just too envious to realize that they still demand these High Priced Actors. Until we quit demanding them they will continue to Break box office records.

      Redbox simply supplies us with all freebies if we do it right. Heck, if I really like the movie I’ll get a $5 or $10 gift card and get 3 movies and keep them. Where else can you get first hand quality DVD or Blu-ray for that little, you sure aren’t going to get that from a clerk.

      Movies today are still great and we get them for free. Redbox rocks and everyone else can go away.

      • Member [Join Now]
        moviecrazy

        In case you don’t see my other reply let me ask you this again:

        First of all, Redbox won’t accept ANY card that doesn’t have at least $25 dollars on it in case you don’t bring it back, right? Or at least that’s what I thought. That way you can’t do what you said you’re doing. And secondly, isn’t your name on the card? If it is they could track you down that way, right?

        • Visitor [Join Now]
          Linda [visitor]
          I work for VBG. To find out why this is important, click here.

          This again brings up the issue that kids can rent R-rated content by just the push of a button with a gift card. And no it just needs to have an address attached to the gift card at the point of purchase which you can just give them any old address. The Redbox doesn’t have the capibilities to determine how much money is on the gift card.

  36. Visitor [Join Now]
    Hassan [visitor]

    Joey,

    in one post I think you made a great point, “time will tell”. I think we’re just watching fluctuations in the market. Perhaps DVD rentals of new releases are undervalued, perhaps studios will push back, Redbox prices will go up or new releases may not appear for 30-45 days, perhaps not. Either way the market will adjust.

    I think it’s interesting that somehow morality got all mixed up in this. Is Redbox “good” because they keep prices low for consumers? Is Redbox “bad” because of their perceived market devaluation costs jobs within the industry? I think each individual will have a different perspective when it comes to the morality of what Redbox does. And I honestly believe there are no wrong answers here.

    Regardless, as you say, time will tell…